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Replacing Aristocraft Dash 9 Motors: how hard is it?


Razor_Antilles
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I've been tossing this idea around ever since I got my Dash 9 from ebay last year and discovered how abysmally slow and loud it is compared to the USAT SD70, and even the USAT GP38. How feasible is it to replace the Aristocraft motors with USA Trains motors to get its speed up close to that of the GP38? Will I need to replace the control board along with the motors?

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I haven't retrofitted USA Trains motorblocks on the aristocraft engines so can't provide specifics.   You wouldn't need to replace internal boards but would have to construct some custom bracing to mount the new blocks to the existing engine/trucks. 

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I checked into that very idea a few years back. I wanted to use the SD70 drives with the Dash-9 truck frames but gave up. The "easiest" would be to use the complete SD70 drives with mounts and truck frames...but then you'd have a hybrid GE with EMD frames. The prices I've been seeing on eBay for Dash-9's lately could almost let you sell 1 Dash-9 and buy 2 SD70's :) 

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Thanks, Rayman! Also, I hear you, Chuck; the prices on UP dash 9s are especially crazy. Makes me hope that USAT can buy the dash 9 molds and re-release them, but I'd rather see an ES44, but I'm not holding my breath for either case.

 

I did do a basic measurement last year and concluded that SD70 motors won't fit in Dash 9 trucks because they're too big, but I haven't compared sizes on the GP38 motors to the available space. I am, however, expecting a similar result, that being GP38 motors are a touch too big to just drop in and fit. Much as I'd love to have my dash 9 keep pace with my SD70, getting it up to GP38 speed would be good enough. Also an easier mod job... maybe.

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Biggest problem I came across was the USA design uses the side frames to carry the locomotive weight via wheel axles that ride in frame bushings....Aristo doesn't. You can quite a noisy Dash-9 drive by re-soldering the motors in their mounts....that will sometimes work.

 

Hard to believe that about 10 years ago St. Aubin was blowing out the Aristo Dash-9's for like $179.89 :o

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5 hours ago, Sean said:

You could just remove the motor and have a dummy engine .... just a thought...  :ph34r:

 

I did briefly consider that, but this engine leads and occasionally runs solo; I mix things up quite a bit, so having all my locos able to run is crucial.

 

4 hours ago, Chuck said:

Biggest problem I came across was the USA design uses the side frames to carry the locomotive weight via wheel axles that ride in frame bushings....Aristo doesn't. You can quite a noisy Dash-9 drive by re-soldering the motors in their mounts....that will sometimes work.

 

Hard to believe that about 10 years ago St. Aubin was blowing out the Aristo Dash-9's for like $179.89 :o

 

Would that weight-bearing problem be solved by not modifying the side frames or axle positions and just working with the motor block itself to accommodate the USAT motor? Though, much will depend on whether or not the length of the USAT GP38 motor is equivalent to the Aristocraft Dash 9/SD45. From some rough eyeballing they -appear- to be, but I haven't investigated very heavily into those details, yet.

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GP38-2 drives are only 2 axle units whereas the Dash-9 is 3 axle. Suppose it could work though. Problem with using SD70 drive is the big motor...makes the drive block itself taller then the Aristo drives and that makes a too tall Dash-9 even taller. See the USA drives don't mount directly to the chassis...they "float" in the side frames as the frames are mounted the actual bolsters...except for the floppy axle.

 

Aristo drives mount directly to the bolsters.

 

I can't remember if a USA drive will even fit a Aristo bolster without modifying it.

 

I was at one time attempting to use SD70 complete drives on a Dash-9 with USA bolsters. Would have had to gut the Dash-9 chassis, remove the bolster pads and fabricate new inside the chassis...basically lowering the chassis down over the bolsters. I did devise a way to mount ball bearings in the Dash-9 side frames and mount on the SD70 drives.

 

I lost interest in that project and kept all 6 of my Dash-9's in stock drives...but I did lower them all 1/4" and then sold them.   

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Yeah, that 3-axle element has been something I've been trying to work out a solution to in my head over the last few months. One idea I had was just to let it be a free-rolling electrical pickup axle, maybe, or run an extended drive rod from the middle axle to the trailing axle so all three would be driving.

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