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Larry Sr.

USA Train Power 10 and DCS

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Hi all

 

I'm new to the G scale trains but have been around O a long time. 

I definitely have a lot to learn in G.

 

I'm in the process of building a small garden layout around 20' by 40 '.

The lay out will have a outer loop and a inner loop both connected with switches allowing trains to go from the inner loop to the outer loop and return. All track is LGB brass. Outer all R-5 inner has some R-3 track.

The USA Power 10 transformers are the ones with a short remote cord for controlling speed , brake, direction and momentum. I  recently at York purchased the DCS system with the WiFi . Being a Legacy guy I have all the DCS stuff to learn (I do have a copy of latest Barry book) It's like learning spanish sometimes????:)

 

I would appreciate assistance on the following questions:

 
Can I use a USA Power 10 transformer for each loop?

Can  the DCS system be  used with the USA Transformers?

If so, how would the 2 transformers be connected to the tiu?

When running non DCS  trains can I just unplug the tiu and run them with the small remote on the USA Power 10 on the separate loops?

 

If I have stated anything that is incorrect please advise. I am at the start of a learning curve here.:wacko:

 

I'll stop there. I have about 1000 questions but I don't want you guys/gals to run me off with my 1st post.

Thanks

Larry

Erwin TN.

 

 

 

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(Updated 9/15/18)

 

Hi Larry,

 

Overall I would recommend reviewing what I have provided on my DCS Tips page:  http://www.rayman4449.com/DCS_Tips.htm

 

If you are going to use a separate transformer for each loop and you have switches to cross from one loop to the other you will need to add electrical insulators at the rails to keep the power supplies electrically isolated.  I personally don't recommend passing trains from one power supply to another like that especially variable throttle types.  At the very least I would minimize how much you do that.

 

To run multiple power supplies (DC in this case) you would connect one power supply to TIU fixed 1 and the other to TIU fixed 2.  (+ to red and - to black terminals).  See my Tips page for how to wire TIU and power supply.

 

You can leave the TIU plugged in when running non DCS trains with no problem.  

 

(Update 9/15/18:  Based on a situation that has arisen with a member on the forums with damage to 3 of their MTH DCS TIUs and also based on information from USA Trains website, I would avoid using that USA Trains power supply with MTH DCS control system and trains.  The other member is using 2 different power supplies and 1 is damaging his TIUs, not sure if it is the USA Trains or the other but based on USA Trains documentation about modifying the waveform, I would avoid using this power supply.)

 

For your loops use direct-to-rail railclamps on all rail joints and eliminate any and all slider joiners.  I use Splitjaw clamps exclusively.  Also as noted on my Tips page, wire each loop in one continuous electrical oval/bloack and don't break into electrical blocks as you may have read in Barry's book or read online.

 

Raymond

 

 

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Until someone else replies....

Yes you can use 2 transformers as long as you break the 2 loops from each other electrically. You would use the split jaw insulating rail clamps for example to do this. You must have each loop in phase when trains cross.

When you use DC power, only the 2 fixed channels on the TIU maybe used. I would connect each transformer to one of the fixed channels with a 10 amp fuse or breaker inline on the hot (red) wire.

You can either disconnect the TIU, or go into the remote and do it in the menus.

The main thing I am not sure about, is the type of power the USA pack provides. If it's a pulse power type pack, it may not work.

Ray's site has some excellent tips about connecting your set-up.

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Ray and Joe

Thanks for your time and help.:)

 

Ray ,

Joe told me about your site and I have been reading and trying to learn about DC running trains . Then about understanding DCS with WiFi  in general.

 

I was recently  very impressed at York with the MTH guys at their display and after discussing the subject in depth  I decided to buy it and play with it outside on the G railroad.

Not in the train room with O gauge. I really thought it would be a fun thing to run trains with my i-pad.

 

Ray, I already have two new USA Power 10 transformer. The reason is I never expected to go remote of any kind. So much for that:wacko:. I will keep the Bridgewerks advice in mind.

 

Ray, This was a surprise, Also as noted on my Tips page, wire each loop in one continuous electrical oval/bloack and don't break into electrical blocks as you may have read in Barry's book or read online.  I would have thought star wiring and that has kept me away from DCS for years. I am very glad you suggest that in DC.

 

Ray, Another BIG surprise. (DC in this case) you would connect one power supply to TIU fixed 1 and the other to TIU fixed 2.  (+ to red and - to black terminals).  See my Tips page for how to wire TIU and power supply.

II would have guessed Passive , that shows you how weak I am with DC train running.

 

Ray and Joe   I'll forget about the crossover switches and each loop will be completely separate...... except black common wire, (correct)?

 

Joe as you told me with e-mail I have and will  use Splitjaw clamps exclusively on all track and wire connections.

 

I will continue reading your information Ray.

 

Thanks  to both of you for getting back with help.

Larry

 

 

 

 

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Looks like you will have a beautiful layout.

 

Star-wiring can be beneficial in AC or DC when you get into the larger layouts. (have that noted on Tips page).  

 

If you have two transformers keep both rails isolated not just one.  Another point is if you flip polarity on DC your rail polarity will be reversed. (diff from AC power running).

 

 

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Thanks Ray

 

I don't know about beautiful , but for a old guy between rain storms I'm  trying.lol

Ok, I will do totally separate loops. I have been reading your info about polarity issues. I went dog bone and oval to avoid the reverse looping for fear of headaches with polarity. I was really trying to keep this simple, but I didn't.

  Is there a rule to track power feeds, like positive on the outside rail and negative on the inside rail ?

 

Does G  have a rule in reference to that?  Now I know why I don't mind that center 3rd rail in  O. lol;)

Thanks again.

Larry

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Those trainpower 10s will be useful things to keep handy for quick tests of individual lines as you're constructing your layout, or if you decide to do anything inside that doesn't need massive power or DCC/DCS. I definitely agree with the suggestion for a Bridgewerks transformer, because I've heard nothing but good about them for large layouts and/or multi-track layouts. If you decide you don't need/want them, the ebay community or someone here will cheerfully take them off your hands for reasonable prices. Happy building!

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On 5/12/2017 at 5:08 PM, Larry Sr. said:

Thanks Ray

 

I don't know about beautiful , but for a old guy between rain storms I'm  trying.lol

Ok, I will do totally separate loops. I have been reading your info about polarity issues. I went dog bone and oval to avoid the reverse looping for fear of headaches with polarity. I was really trying to keep this simple, but I didn't.

  Is there a rule to track power feeds, like positive on the outside rail and negative on the inside rail ?

 

Does G  have a rule in reference to that?  Now I know why I don't mind that center 3rd rail in  O. lol;)

Thanks again.

Larry

 

I think you're doing the right thing with a dog bone and avoiding the reversing loop.  The reversing loops aren't necessary and the simpler you keep everything the better off you will be long term.  Nothing would be worse than having a layout built for a dog bone and have reversing loop electronics fail for some reason rendering that loop unusable.  While you may never have issues, when you are outdoors you can never be sure and you would always have that as some possibility as something that could go wrong.  To me it is a fundamental rule to keep things as simple as possible and minimize points or possible failure or problems.

 

On 2 rail (which is what we have in G scale) because the MTH PS2 G scale engines have a polarity switch on the engine you dont have to worry about certain polarity to a specific rail.  The only exception to that is the original production MTH One Gauge Challengers, those didn't include a polarity switch so if those are kept as PS2 then you would have to have + DC power to the left side (Fireman side) of the engine.  Because of this those One Gauge Challengers are good candidates to upgrade to PS3 which eliminates the need for a polarity switch.  For One gauge, PS3 has a number of important upgrades for us that makes it a worthwhile upgrade.

 

On the power supplies, I generally say to try what you already have but must keep in mind the risks if your power supply is PWM and you dont know it as it can damage your train electronics or control equipment.   If for some reason you have issues you can always replace what you currently have.  If it's something you are willing to do down the road I think moving to a Bridgewerks would be a good idea.  Right now you have a lot going on and a lot of expenditures to deal with.

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On 5/12/2017 at 3:51 PM, Larry Sr. said:

Ray and Joe

Thanks for your time and help.:)

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Larry

Why don't you start a new thread in the layout section so we can see the building of your empire!

I see you cheat with that track steer!

Sean :lol:

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Larry

 

You can also check out information on the Bridgewerks stuff on our site: www.bridgewerks.com

About a year ago, we updated the design for the MAG-15 so that they all have regulated DC outputs which makes them more friendly when operating with DCS systems.

 

If you are going to be in Tulsa in July for the National show - We will be there and you can check out our power supplies in person, as well as getting some good ideas for your layout from the other folk who will be there.

 

Mark

Bridgewerks

 

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Mark

I appreciate the information. I have had others provide information about Bridgework products and I will definitely keep that in mind.

Thanks for the post.

Larry

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Larry, I updated my prior replies regarding the USA Trains Trainpower 10 power supply.  Based on new information and possible issue with another user I would avoid using it with your MTH Trains and control system

 

 

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