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Planning new frieght yard


Grant-Kerr
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Started planning the new freight yard throat on the garage floor to give me some new ideas

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The track to the far left is the main. Tracks running the other way could be yard pocket , engine storage , whatever. Any one see anything wrong with this? I am into operations and just to make sure the other end is a mirror image but without the pocket, or do you think a pocket would be a good thing as well. Just throwing this out there for comment.

 

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It looks great to me. I really don't do well with pre-planning.

I have heard comments that there should be a track so that you don't foul up the mainline. I'm sure that in real life, it does happen. In the larger yards, I could see planning a full set-up track and a run around relief track, if that's their correct titles?

On my own RR, I set-up those tracks and they never got used. They took up places in my tight back yard that made getting around the tracks tougher. We kept stepping on the track and switches in this tight area next to my garage.

 So I temporarily removed them. I wanted a RR that would be fun to operate and build up trains on. It ended up basically just a loop of running for easier operation.

I don't really have the correct answers to share right now. Only, it's a matter of available space vs. pleasure and ease. These are big areas that can eat up whole back yards trying to achieve some type of realism.

Translation for me, I need more space!

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Had a bit of a rethink on this and have altered the main track spacing from 6" to 8" centre to centre. ( I know, I know, Muricans spell it center.) The rest of the yard is all 6" centre's. The reason is because if someone should turn up with a 1:20.3 loco then it will clear in passing through. Make sense? Thank you for the input Joe. Always appreciated and I did read that book Modelling for Operations. Lot of good stuff in there if you was modelling in HO but in 1:32 scale it gets real big real quick! Still some of the ideas in the book can be bent to fit.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Grant-

 

For years I have toyed with the idea of replacing the plastic LGB ties on my LGB flex rails with homemade wooden ties.   Seeing all your photographs showing your beautiful wood ties on your track has inspired me to write you.

 

Would it be possible for you to post some closeup photos of the assembled track showing the "spikes" you used to attach the ties to the rails?  I am good at woodworking so I think I can do it.  But do you see any problems with me using my existing LGB brass flex rails?  Can you give me (us) any tips for how you inserted the spikes?  (for example, did you use a small hammer or some sort of hand held squeezing devise?)  Did you need to drill pilot holes? And finally would you mind sharing the name of your spike supplier?

 

thanks so much in advance,

 

John Carmichael

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large_059.jpg.ecefe2aaf3d7a6982ec2c86475

 

John.

If you look closely at this picture you will see how it is done. I drill thru the foot of the rail after marking it with a fine marker at the tie spacing , on one side only and relay the rail on the tie and use a smaller drill to make a pilot hole right thru the tie. I don't mind telling you that what I use for spikes are serrated brass Escutcheon pins. Should be available in the States. I strongly suggest that if you try this, only do it on one side of the rail. If you do both sides you WILL bow the rail!  Ask me how I know, hehe. I might add here for your benefit that I own Outback Turnouts. The wood I use is a hard wood used here for decking and is called Mirbou. Pronounced Mer- boo. Some of the gray ones in this photo are nearly 20 odd years old and have been in all sorts of weather and still good as new. And white ants hate it. A GENTLE tap with a Brad hammer and a scollop headed nail punch until seated is all that is needed. Do get yourself some good quality track gauges or make them yourself if you wish. I make my own and my main one is made from tool steel and is in this photo, all-though it is upside down. It is for straight track and is accurate to a couple of thou. Also make yourself a tie jig. A long one. Finally, I see no reason why you cannot use the rail you have because it is the same as what I use, I just buy it in bulk, (Half ton loads, just not from LGB) Hope I have been of some help here with this for you. I might also add that how I do it is not for the purist but then I do it this way for longevity and strength. Last thing I want is for me to be running around re-spiking track before a session.

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YOu can get spikes made to hold the rail. Micro Engineering has them, not sue who else.

http://www.microengineering.com/products_ta.htm

I drill a small hole in the wood tie, then push the larger spike in. The spike has one side that will overlap the rail. You can do both sides, at least I do with no problems.  The spikes are black and good for outside especially, since they rust some and lock good to the wood.  They have a tool to help do it also, or someone does, maybe Llagas creek.

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Grant:

Great reply- full of useful tips.  Love your philosophy of longevity and strength.  That's mine too. I also used thousands of brass escutcheon pins in the three miles of wood in my redwood trestles, so your tie pins will match what I have.  I didn't realize that scolloped nail punches were even available.  That was news to me.  So I searched the web and they are indeed hard to find.  I only found one supplier who makes them for gunsmiths.  They call them "cupped" punches https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/punches/cup-tip-punches-prod656.aspx  

Since we don't have Mirbou wood, I'm not sure what I'll use.  My trestles are made out of redwood which has held up very well, so I might use that.  The only changes that I think I'll make to your method is that I think I'll rough up the ties a little bit and slightly round the corners just to make them look older more rough hewn, and I think I'll stain them.  Otherwise I really like your system and the materials you are using.  Thanks!

 

Jerry:  Do you also drill spike holes into the foot of the rail the way Grant does?  Or do you also use the Micro Engineering tie plates? Or do you just put the spikes next to the rail directly into the ties? Do you only put them on the outside of the rails?  Do you have problems of them coming out over time?  What kind of wood do you use?

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John,

   I just drill in the wood, the spike head overlaps the rail, so it is not necessary to drill the rail. Be a lot of drill bits!  Did not use tie plates.  I use redwood or cedar.   I've only done this for some switches I made and had no problem with them.   Most people who do their rail this way use the Micro Engineering spikes. And spike on both sides.

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Jerry:

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Grant:

Since reading your first reply, I investigated your Mirbou hardwood which confirmed all you said about its great durability and strength.  My research lead me to a great website of a company in South Carolina that specializes in imported exotic hardwoods that are especially good for things like outdoor decking, siding and railroad ties, and flooring. see http://www.eastteak.com/

 

Perhaps you or some of the forum guys would be interested in my findings:

 

I was looking for woods that have a very dark color (like railroad ties- you call them sleepers) and resist termites and rot. And  I found many good candidates. 

Ipe: http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/ipe-lumbe/

Camaru: http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/cumaru-lumber/

Afroromosa: http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/afrormosia-lumbe/

Jatoba: http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/jatoba-lumber/

Mirbau (You call it Mirbou): http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/merbau-lumber/

Teak: http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/teak-lumber/

Wenge: http://www.eastteak.com/exotic-woods/wenge-lumber/

 

Might be interesting just  to call East Teak for prices. ( I bet they are all horribly expensive!)  I wonder how they compare to Redwood?

 

I also did a lot of research on deck sealers and stains.  (I have only used Minwax stain on my trestles, but no sealers).  I was going to use clear Thompson's Waterseal, but the trend now seems to be towards sealers that stain too.  You want longevity of more than a year before needing to re-coat. And you want UV, termite and rot resistance.  For years the popular "go to" sealer was clear Thompsons Waterseal.  So I was surprised with the horrible reviews Thompson gets.  People say it doesn't last and doesn't resist mildew and rot.

 

On this website for the decking trade it lists the top five sealer/stain brands that they have tested and recommend.  (I imagine that you would want to stain and seal railroad ties and trestles the same way you treat outdoor decking.)

Interestingly, most must be ordered directly from the factory because I don't find them in Lowes or Home Depot, although Amazon carries some of them.  See: https://www.deckstainhelp.com/category/deck-product-reviews/

I ordered a gallon of  transparent dark oak TWP 100 “Total Wood Preservative” to try out on my trestle walkways which need re-staining anyway.  It appears to be the number one choice for the best quality stain & sealer.

 

 

 

 

 

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John

Don't know if you get this Stateside for decking , probably the best sealer on the market here is Cabot's Stain. And you PAY thru the nose for it too. I do not seal my ties, period. As in ever!

In Oz the predominate timber used in real Railroad ties / sleepers is Redgum. Hard as rock, lasts a long time, and weathers to a grey colour over time. I have wrecked a Carbide tipped 32 tooth bench saw blade cutting this stuff into lengths. That is why very early on I opted to Mirbou. As you found it is dense but does rip easier than some other hard woods and if you use a blade as such as I mentioned then you will not need to dress it as it cuts clean. I buy it in linear feet and get the supplier to run it thru a thickness machine to get the desired width of the tie and then rip it at home to give me the thickness. Cuts down on cost and also I get what I want. Then I cut the resultant lengths up into what ever length tie I want.

I repeat to you again that the way I spike my rail is NOT the purist's way of doing it. What Jerry described is in essence the correct way for what is achieved, but a purist would take it maybe 2 steps more and use tie plates and spike one in the tie plate and one diagonally opposite on the same rail. Then count the rivets. :)

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Thank you Chuck. Interesting that you picked up on the wye, So here is how it goes. A #10 of the main into a #5 wye, This brings the second track parallel with the main and the added effect of bringing the #6 units into play of the other angle. Track centre's are 7" from the main to track 2 and then 5 1/4 inches on all the rest of the tracks. The holding tracks are #7 turnouts that had been made for a client a couple of years ago (2 L/H and 2 R/H) who did not show up, I have been looking at them for ages wondering where I could use them and this is it. :) They are also 5 1/4" spacing.  Total track bed width is 40 1/4 inches on the base, Quite workable. As to length, well the side of the house we never use has a garden bed in it with a concrete walkway between it and the house. SWMBO has okayed the use of this for this project then it is going to be a LOT of honey do's for the rest of the layout. (Can read that one like a book! ) Like Joe's layout it will run the boundries so should be ok.  I hope.

  large_054.jpg.c2528757ebbdca6a56ef476124 1:32 reefers on 5 1/4 centre's

large_053.jpg.52041f5cd18157cc8d1e394f1e1:29 on the same centre's

 

Edited by Grant-Kerr
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