Rayman4449 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Looking good guys and Jerry looks like you've made good progress on the new layout Jerry, looking at the photos had one question. Do you have slider joiners and then have split-jaw clamps over the outside of it? (In Red) I mean this as if you want to have the real benefit of rail-clamps (rock solid connections) it is best to eliminate all the slider joiners completely and just use direct to rail clamps. The clamp over slider joiner versions are still going to end up with less than ideal track connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Please explain why. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 A direct to rail clamp will be able to use 100% of its clamping force for the clamp itself to actually more bite into the rail on a smaller surface area. A direct to rail clamp will be making solid direct contact with the bottom and bottom sides of the rail profile. With a slider in place, an over the rail the clamp can at best exert some force only on the side of the rail profile. The amount of clamping force on these clamps is limited, they aren't like bench vices we us in our garages. They can exert only a certain amount of force before the screw bends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 OK, I will buy that. I am asking because I don't know. How does the track expand and contract with the clamps, or one does not use all clamps for the sections and in some parts use the slide type connections. My track will be about 150 ft., so there will be quite a bit of expansion and contraction, especially here in the Florida sun. With the slides, I can see that expansion and contraction would be allowed, but with all clamps it would be limited. The manufacturer of the tracks that I will use stated that a space was to be made between all splices for that reason, like I say, I am learning. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 For expansion, if using the direct to rail clamps the rail joints will stay fixed if they are tightened down fully. In my case my curves are free floating so they can push out or pull in as needed but at least on my layout so I haven't had issues with it. (My straights are screwed down to boards (although they are more free floating in more places as time has gone on). I will note that I'm using Stainless steel which may have a lower expansion factor than brass or other metals. If someone needed expansion points in a straight, Split-Jaw does make a double long clamp that is made to allow for expansion. Having seen both types, for me personally I would only ever use the direct to rail type. For those using over-slider joiner clamps with slider joiners and they seem to be fine that is great, but reliable track power outdoors is one of the more challenging issues people deal with in the hobby and what drives a good number to just go battery power. Aside from brass oxidation on the rail, unreliable/oxidized joints that use slider joiners are the other main source of problems and from my experience, direct to rail clamps completely eliminates any question on rail joint connection reliability. My layout outside has been deployed for 10+ years it is still 100% reliable with no track power issues. Again that is partly because of Stainless rail but without the clamps I would have issues. I started out with rail joiners on my first small 120ft oval (SS track and SS slider joiners) and within a year or two I was having connection issues. With the way those slider joiners were designed it would have been lucky if an over the rail clamp would have made any material difference given how thick/hard the slider metal was (resisted bending). I can just say, if someone wants a truly reliable track powered G scale layout, removing all slider joiners and going with direct to rail clamps (of the same metal type) is a must. (It is good to use clamps of the same metal type ie brass clamps on brass rail or Stainless clamps on stainless rail because of Galvanic corrosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion)). I dont know that dissimilar metal corrosion would be a material factor for what we are doing, but the bottom line is if you are going to go through the expense and buy clamps, it is best to do it right and avoid any chance of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Thanks for the information, and I agree with everything that you have mentioned, looks like that I will go with rail clamps. As for the galvanic action, it exists any time in varying degrees, where there is a difference in metals. Thanks again for the info. and it was very valuable. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 That's one thing that I noticed with Sunset Valley code 250 stainless steel rail...that is they only offer slip-on rail joiners made out of brass. And I believe that Accucraft is who really makes them. So why make stainless rail when you can't offer stainless slip-on joiners?? Here's how one guy "cleaned" his corroded code 332 Split Jaw brass rail clamps after being used for a few years with Aristo-Craft stainless steel rail outdoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I use dielectric grease along with the clamps.. Trian-li clamps : https://www.trainli.com/rail-clamps-p-61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B44 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I use rail clamps on all of my joints. Mostly the SVRR clamps I got 30 years ago. Did clean them good after the move before I put the track together. Some track was really filthy and old ties had to be replaced. Tried to do it right and not have any troubles, I used the conducting grease also and my Dremel wire brush tool to clean the ends of the NS rail. I That is a clean spot that was circled in red, does have a regular clamp. do have some Hillman clamps also, like to get some more code 250 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 OK, yes, I am stupid when it come to rail clamps as I have never used them. I have never had a gauge 1 layout, but I am about to. Would someone please give a tutorial on how to install them properly? Are the little screws inserted through a tapped hole, or are they just screwed in to clamp to the rail? I know, I should know this, but I don't, Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 Moved this discussion to a separate thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 Bob, see this link see if this helps any: http://www.rayman4449.com/Rail_Connections.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Thank you Ray. I now see that the screw is under the rail, I didn't understand that having not seen one. Ok, I understand now. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Sure thing I just updated the over the rail clamp photo on the page I linked to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Thank you, and I am sure happy to know that there are people smarter than I am, because with this little exercise, I have surely learned more than I knew before. Thanks again. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmickel Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Has any ever tried soldering slider rail joiners to join rails to gather for electrical continuity? Don't know if it's a good idea or not, for "G" scale. Used to solder rails to gather on smaller scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 The issue with soldering anything to rail in this scale is the size of rail resulting in it being hard to get the spot hot enough to solder to it. The rail absorbs the heat at a rapid rate. Not saying it cant be done, but it is more problematic. If I was going to do that i would probably use a propane torch but will have to be sure not to melt the ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Speaking of Split-Jaw Rail Clamps it appears RLD Hobbies is now making them?? https://www.rldhobbies.com/rldbrasssplitclamp10.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 Thanks for the heads-up, good price I would say Wonder if they have Stainless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown7713 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 SVRR has stainless joiners. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 SVRR has code 250 joiners only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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