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mjltuk
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Newbie here, but with eight years' GR experience. It feels like I have spent much of that time trying to extricate basic factual specifications - such as width, height and total wheelbase - from G manufacturers' material

We have a turntable that can just turn an Aristo Mallet (long tender) with about one whisker/ 1mm to spare on each end. The track on the bridge is exactly 1055mm or about 41.5".

Its that time of year when you look at your options for Big Locos and one I'm considering is the MTH Triplex (The Challenger is definitely too long).

Can somebody who has a Triplex please tell me what the Total Wheelbase is please? Or whether it would fit on my turntable?

If not, what other Big Locos would you consider? Another Aristo Mallet?


mike in UK

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Hi Mike and welcome to the forums.

 

For the Triplex, figure 37"max from center of front pilot axle on the engine to center of the rear axle on the tender.  (It is 36.5" with the tender pin centered in the back of the engine frame).  Coupler to coupler it measures out at 43"

 

My only concern nowadays with the Aristocraft Mallet is the availability of replacement parts.  Given that the engine used the standard green sealed gear box (which has all plastic gears) if one fails you may have problems getting parts to get it running again.  That said if one was to come up that was a good deal I'd probably jump on it.  That said if the Challenger is too long then the MTH Big Boy would be as well.

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Thanks Ray

 

The Triplex is well within my limit - lengthwise! Now just need to find out what I can do in the UK pricewise.

 

And I hear what you say about the Aristo Mallet.

 

Any body have any other suggestions?

 

 

mike

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Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the gears on the Aristo mallet. There's not much talk on the forums with regard to gear problems with the Aristo stuff. (Other issues, perhaps.) All the axles have gears, so if one fails, just bypass it. You've got three other gears on each powered chassis, and the siderods will transfer power to the "ungeared" axle, so you've still got power to all 4 axles. That, and Aristo's gearbox is modular; used in a number of locos. It shouldn't be too difficult to locate spares in the off chance one dies completely.

 

That, and even with other manufactures' locos, who's to say they'll be around in 5, 10, 15 years to get parts? Heck, folks have trouble getting parts from manufacturers who are actively in business!

 

As for other suggestions--if you're looking for big standard gauge power, you've pretty much exhausted it with the Aristo mallet, MTH Triples, and the challengers and big boys from various manufacturers. Aster makes an Allegheny, if you've got a spare $15K+ lying around.

 

Later,

 

K

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The gears are a long term consideration and the issue can't be discounted.  Within the last month I just had person with 4 completely failed Aristo 3 axle motorblocks approach me for help. (Every gearbox in every motor block was failed) They don't run a display, this is their private use.  Obviously they ran their engines quite a bit over the relative period of time but the point is that after a certain amount of use the plastic gears will wear out.  And again when looking ahead years down the road where wear is cumulative it is something that needs to be kept in mind.  I know too that in the case of the engines on display at our local mall location the gears only last so long before they fail.  The failures aren't from excessive loads or tight radius curves, it's that they only last so long before wearing out.   

 

Regarding parts availability, there is big difference between parts availability from a company that is out of business and one that may be temporarily sold out.  When you get down to it, I'm not sure I've ever seen a case where replacement plastic gears were not available from USA or a 3rd party maker like NWSL (North West Shortline) for USA diesels. (I don't know how Bachmann is.)  

 

When a gearbox fails it will pretty much automatically be bypassed because the axle gear will be stripped out(which is what usually goes out).  This is where driver quartering will be more critical and if not right will be more at risk of binding.  The key problem is however when one gearbox fails due to wear, the others aren't far behind so it would just be a matter of time before the failures cascade to a point where the engine wont run.  

 

As I have said before, in the end most people don't run their engines that heavily where they will see regular gear failures and hopefully should not have issues, but if an engine is run with regularity at some point time will catch up with you.  Hopefully new production of those Aristo gears will be made at some point to help keep the engines in circulation running.

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Long-term care is always a consideration, but it shouldn't keep one from buying a locomotive they want. Consider the vast majority of live steam locomotives--very small production runs with few (if any) spare parts. Even with proper care and feeding, the bearings and crank pins are eventually going to wear. When that happens, there's nowhere to turn, except your lathe (if you have one). Our electric mice are really no different. Gears are going to fail. But even if the company is long out of business, if there's a demand, there's bound to be a supply. When you factor in the explosion of 3D printing technology, we'll be able to print gears on our desktops as we need them. It's not going to take much for someone to scan in or draw an Aristo replacement gear. We're already seeing folks make Aristo and other replacement parts for things like handrail stanchions, etc. I think we'll find it a lot easier to keep our electric mice running far into the future than some of our fire-breathing dragons.

 

Later,

 

K

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Thanks Kevin, as thoughtful as ever. Yet I agree if you're talking mainstream suppliers of mainstream parts. Yet where are all the new suppliers of Aristo motor blocks?

 

Ray I see you also have two AML K4s. That's another option I'm considering. Can I ask where do you stand on power/gearing please? I'd be looking at a couple of pounds of batteries and four to five coaches and 2% gradients. I don't want to have to stop to cool down every 10 minutes!

 

Is there any significance in the absence of any videos of K4s on your site?

 

Best

 

mike

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I agree completely that it shouldn't keep all people in all situations to say away and that is why my replies have been worded they way they have.  I know end-users that would be upset if I gave a recommendation to buy without making them aware of the situation.   At least this way if they move forward and do have problems down the road they knew they made the call.  

 

I reached out to North West Short Line (NWSL) as Aristo was closing down about the possibility of them making both gears.  They responded back that with the way the the worm gear is made, they saw it as cost prohibitive to make.  I think the axle gear could be more easily duplicated.  In either case Mike, to your point I'm not aware of either of these being available by any 3rd parties yet.  

 

On the K4, the absence of videos is only indicative of the relatively short period of time I've had them, not because of any particular issue or problem like the gearing.  I haven't run them under long enough durations to really comment from personal experience on the gearing/motor situation but I am well aware of that issue.  In thinking back in my case I do recall running one of the K4s with 4 Aristo heavyweights up my relatively steep grade on my main layout (not long basement ramp) and do remember noting how much it slowed down. (sorry not sure of the grade %)  It made me understand in real terms how it might be an issue as an engine slowing down that much under a good load running at high speeds can cause motors to get hot.  Thinking back on it now I remember that we did run a K4 on one of our trainshow displays on level track with 20ft diameter curves with 5 heavyweight cars and I thought it did ok but I wasn't monitoring that engine and it was getting swapped out with a USA Trains Hudson.  I don't know if it was getting swapped out to keep the engine from getting hot or just to run another engine.  In your case I think the grade will be your question.  I'll ask Chuck to weigh in here as he has a good bit of experience with running them.

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Brilliant reply thank you Ray. Very interesting insight on the Aristo drive train that will be helpful to many.

 

Must say that the only problem we have had with our Mallet to date (six years after buying it in a pretty neglected state, so I'm guessing an early model) was a quartering issue after a fall - fixed in a few seconds once we noticed what had happened.

 

On the K4, four heavyweights does seem to be the tipping point if not running on level track. I'd guess from your videos that that ramp is steeper than 2%.

 

Hoping that the voice of experience will prevail. Or several even!

 

 

mike

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...Yet where are all the new suppliers of Aristo motor blocks?

 

There's not (yet) the demand. Aristo parts can still be found from various sources, to say nothing of butchering basket-case 2nd-hand locos as needed. When that supply dries up, I think that's when you'll see things tick up a bit from enterprising folks with 3D printers. The other consideration is that so long as Aristo exists in one form or another with the capacity to produce parts, they also have the capacity to defend their patent on their drive. You may find someone making replacement gears, but copying their motor block is a little shadier.

 

Later,

 

K

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So where are these various sources please?

I can't say I've shopped for them recently to know of a specific store. I do see them at train shows on the odd occasion, and shops that do repairs may have some in stock or might have a butchered loco lying around for parts. I frequently see Aristo locos at train shows, and ebay will have listings for parts locos that go pretty inexpensively. $200 for a mikado frame gets me 4 replacement gearboxes. Aristo's gone, sure. But that doesn't mean you can't get parts. You might have to be patient, but you can get the parts.

 

If you're in the market for one, call around or post on the various forums' "for sale" threads that you're looking for one. If nothing else, it will demonstrate that there may be a need that someone with a 3D printer might be able to meet.

 

Later,

 

K

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  • 2 weeks later...

Friend of mine recently sent me this pic wondering if I had any spares :(

 

Told him no as I know of nobody that has any Aristo drive parts.

 

Said he has 3 Dash-9's in this condition and hates having to buy new as one dealer shows having the drives in stock at $80.00 each x 6 be talking $500.00 to get his loco's back into operating shape. 

 

Sad part is these were the latest run D-9's so technically they're still under the Aristo-Craft 5 yr. warranty...Good luck on that.

 

I recommended he "look around" as Kevin stated for parts but in the meanwhile save his $$$ and start buying MTH Dash-8's with all metal gear trains! :D

 

post-23-0-93550000-1421888961.jpg 

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  • 2 weeks later...
 

When I started seeing more and more posts about problems, I ordered some spare parts for the few Dash 9s I have. It wasn't like Aristo disappeared overnight. Guys had due notice and did nothing. Now they need some parts and don't want to buy the whole drives.

 I didn't even want to buy the engine because of the plastic gears. MTH withdrew from making any more Dash 8s so I was left with no choices.

NWSL offers great gears for the USA axle gear problems but it will cost you. Maybe they don't sell well enough for them to be interested in making the Aristo gears?

 A lot of G gauge guys don't run big trains or run for very long hours in a session to worry about replacing gears or even just maintaining them. I bought some used engines and see the evidence of this. This is a big reason I would brag about the quality of the MTH gearing. Some of my dash 8s are around ten years old =/- and the gearing inside still works like new.

 If you have any brands with lesser quality gears inside, I would definitely figure in proper maintenance regularly. Just some simple oiling at the axle bearing points does wonders. Pairing up engines and adding helpers, can help them last virtually forever. I grab the train with my hand and pull to see exactly what I'm expecting my engines to handle. It's amazing how a toy train can have the forces acting on it just like a real one.

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