What would the next MTH steamer be?

[du-bousquetaire]

Hi there: Has any body gotten any news from the pipeline as to what that new "small or medium size" steam engine MTH is thinking about producing, might be? I just looked at their HO  PRR H 10 and it sure looks delicious to me... There was a lot of talk about it just before their 2015 catalogue came out, then radio silence...

I would also like to know what other diesels, electrics or cars and coaches they might want to produce in the near futur in their gauge one 1/32 line. It is about time some new things came out soon. (I must confess that nothing in their last catalogue appealed to me, however I would have liked to encourage them). I hope that new releases will give me the chance to do so.

[BNSF 828]

Good question.  I was searching the MTH Site a couple days ago and found a NS 4-bay hopper listed from the 2016 Vol 1 catalog. Looks like a new catalog is forthcoming. With any luck, it will have some new tooling... 

[enginear joe]

I am really hoping for new stuff. I'm wondering if they will release anything. They seem so busy in all the other scales. It will be exciting to see. I'm waiting on the new Bigboy right now. I'd prefer modern though.

I wonder if it would be easiest for them to make a Dreyfus Hudson or something out of partially existing tooling? I'd like a 4-8-4 too.

[enginear joe]

Take a good look at what has been recently released in HO and O scales. S scale is just getting going. I think we are on the back.... way back burner. I hope they don't even look at N scale! We'll be toast.

[Jerry B44]

I have little hope except for re-paints.  Look at the economy. But we don't know how sales went for the BB and other recent re-issues, so depends on that, I imagine.  4-8-4 UP #844 would be my choice.

[BNSF 828]

#844 would be good and I might be tempted if a nice Pacific rolled into town... 

[Rayman4449]

The small / medium size engine that was rumored in the past came up after the Triplex was completed which as I recall was before the economy tanked.  It does sound like they may be asking around for input on a next steam engine, but don't know if they are looking at a rerun of existing model or considering something not produced before.  

I created a poll this time last year when there was talk of USA Trains making a new steamer: 

While the list isn't that large and only focuses on what USA was considering, I added the 611 because I felt it was a big omission and as expected it did get high marks.  I'm going to forward this poll to MTH to give them some guidance although they know very well which models are the most popular already from the many years of producing their O gauge line.  The take away for me from that poll was the 611 was at the top of list with a Northern like the UP FEF up there as well.

I would say put up your suggestions on what you would like to see made and maybe I can create a new poll.  For anything to be made in this scale it is going to have to have pretty broad appeal, so may want to keep that in mind.  I would say we need two lists, one of engines you would like to see remade (ie. Challenger, Hudson, GS4, GS2, Triplex) and another for new production.

 

Rerun of existing engine:

1. Hudson: I think this engine would be important because of it's smaller size (to run on all layouts) and the general overall popularity of the prototype.

                       - Enhancements:  All metal drivers (like the Big Boy / Triplex).  If additional weight isn't added then perhaps add another set of drivers with traction tires.

       2. Challenger: 

                      - Enhancements:  I would like to see this engine remade like the Big Boy with die cast metal frames and all metal drivers. 

       3. GS4 / GS2:  I do get asked about this engine with the same regularity as the Challenger.

                      - Enhancements: All metal drivers

                      - New option:  All black with side-skirts.

New Production:

1. N&W J (611):  I think this would be the most popular and best selling new steam engine MTH could make given its overall fame and recent restoration.  With 611 being operational I think we might see people not even in the hobby buy this engine for a display piece (which is something I know people were doing with the original run of MTH Big Boys).  
2. UP FEF (4-8-4 #844):  This engine was at the top of the list in the USA Trains poll that was posted here on the forums.  (I'd like to see all metal drivers and die cast frame if we can get it.)
3. NYC Dreyfuss Hudson (4-6-4):  Want to see with all metal drivers (die cast frame if we can get it)
4. N&W Y6b (2-8-8-2): (Click for Photo)This may be starting to get more on the fringe of what would sell in volume in this scale but I would love to see this engine and would buy multiples if made.  (make like the Big Boy, die cast frames and metal drivers)
5. Allegheny (2-6-6-6):  Same comments as Y6b. 
6. ATSF 3751 (4-8-4): (Click for Photo) I have this one listed at number 6 but this is one I would like to see and with the 3751 being operational I think might see people not even in the hobby buy this engine.
7. Penn K4 Pacific (4-6-2):  This has already been made so not sure on what the demand would be but it is smaller engine and iconic.

 

Post your thoughts and I may create a poll later.

[Rayman4449]

I do agree Jerry on the most likely thing is a rerun and think the UP 844 would be popular as well.  

Just as a note, the 4012 (Coal burner) of the new production Big Boys is already sold out so it appears the Big Boy sales are going good.  I think your comment on the economy is still an issue as well.

[benshell]

Ray, I think you're right about appealing to people not in the hobby with models of popular operational locomotives. I think model train manufacturers should try and get their models to be on display and sold at any related museums and ticket offices too. There's always a temptation to buy something at those kind of things, and while it's usually something small like a book or t-shirt, having a nice model on display would plant a bug for some. When I rode SP 4449 last Christmas they had large scale Bachmann ten wheeler on display, and not the upgraded one either! It was inside a nice display case that was worth far more. Why not have an MTH GS-4 on display, and available for sale?

For re-runs, my first choice would be a GS-4, or two. I'm trying to save/look for an Accucraft GS-4 now, but I would still buy an all black MTH GS-2/4.

For something new, I think an N&W 611 or NYC Dreyfuss Hudson would be nice, but the gotcha is that I'd really want matching passenger cars, so (assuming cars are available) they'd be expensive purchases I'd really have to think about. Better yes, just stick with SP and make a Pacific (Accucraft is planning one). SP 2472 is operational, although granted it's much less famous than many other locomotives like the 611.

[Jim Miller]

I vote for the Challenger, it has a lot to gain with the latest MTH technological improvements. Really good looking engine!................Jim

[BNSF 828]

Hmm, #844, Pacific, Challenger. Please don't make me choose... 

[du-bousquetaire]

I think that UP and SP have been very well catered for by both Aster and Accucraft, and so does the Allegheny; so my vote would go for engines that haven't been produced yet in gauge one such as the Y6 or earlier USRA articulated which I think woiuld be just as popular as the 611. Ditto the AT&SF 4-8-4 (in particular the later versions with the huge tenders with the buckeye 8 wheel trucks)which could also permit to release one of the big Texas Madam Queens, which sports many common parts. I sincerly feel that it is indecent to see all those SP and UP models and no AT&SF ones. They also could come out with a Santa Fe hudson (a real scale model one not just a repaint of a NYC J3. I just looked at a map of freight traffic density in the US today and the AT&SF or BNSF main line handles a much larger volume of freight than the UP does!

 The 611 is already announced by Accucraft so why duplicate it? I don't think gauge one can cope with two identical models being produced by two diferent manufactureres, yet, ditto the K4. Why not  an I1 Descapod or hyppo? that would be a welcome addition for us Pennsy fans. or a J1 this could be made in C & O or Pennsy although there is a good deal to make different (cab, front end and tender) if you want to stay accurate.

I was thinking about the H10 2-8-0 because they just released one in HO and it fitted the small or medium size loco category that they had talked about, besides I would be a sucker for one, myself. And it would be a very handy little loco to have around, remember that the Pennsy sold quite a few to short lines...

[Jim Miller]

There would be so much going against what I would really want to see; A CAB FOREWARD.................Jim

[Jim Miller]

Yea! that's what I mean................

[du-bousquetaire]

I guess every body would want a different engine, there again this one has already been offered in gauge one. (although admitedly at a very different price, but what people in G scale should understand is that the price for these brass locos is largely justified, building from scratch such a loco represents thousands of skilled workman hours, and when you consider that, they are still quite a good deal for the money). However I like well made stuff that is more democratically priced also like what MTH does very well. But as a serious and live steam fan I defend these firms that turn out fantastic models in metal that are a great value for the price they cost.

It would be good if all members of this forum say what their favourite engine would be then the manufacturer can make their choices knowing what people would really like. Actually what seems to be the determining factor in producing gauge one locos at the present, is if it's a classic (IE. a loco that sold well in the other scales- HO and O scale) and two if the prototype loco has been preserved. This in turn really limits what is available dramatically: this is why for instance in live steam we have now a considerable  number of express or big modern engines but very few freight engines or local engines. Only the "star" locos get modeled by the manufacturers. Meaning that we end up with varied passenger or prestige studs and no good freight locos or switchers... Quite a dilemna, I serously think that these forums could help manufacturers make other more useful choices, and that would be good fotr the business and for the fans. Send in your want lists, that is what forums can di well.

[Jim Miller]

1/29 scale all brass from Broadway unlimited. Never went into production, they did take preorders. http://www.broadway-limited.com/3003spcab-forwardac-12varnishedbrassphoenixsoundgscale.aspx

Unfortunately we will probably only see repaint of previously released engine since mold costs for a all new engine can be well over a million dollars......Jim

[enginear joe]

she looks better painted to me on the next page

[Rayman4449]

We have had this conversation before but... because of the the price point, Accucraft's customer base will be much much smaller.  Looking up pricing, Accucraft Allegheny electric and live steam runs $7000.  Accucraft 611, I only see live steam pricing at $5750 and assume electric will be the same.   I know for myself and from the avg person I deal with that most people won't spend that much money on a single engine so they are basically not even in consideration for them.  While I'm glad to see the engine even being made, the price difference is so large that we are talking almost entirely different customer bases with the vast majority won't buy or own engines that expensive... So for a large percentage of the customer base the engine might as well not have even been made. 

An MTH model of 611 etc would likely run around $1000.00.  Even with USA Trains still having the Big Boy available at $3800 each, the MTH Big Boy #4012 from this current production run is already sold out and that engine sells for around $1300.00.  So there has been and continues to be a market for more affordable models even of the same prototype.

And again a model has to be chosen that is popular enough in this small market to sell in sufficient quantities to achieve an affordable lower price point.  In this market the engine prototype and the price point are critical (more critical than the other larger markets like O and HO).  From what I understand from Aristocraft they claimed the Mallet wasn't a great seller and their conclusion was that no one wanted big engines.  Well MTH had no problems selling their One Gauge Big Boys and they are making more now.  So it wasn't that people didn't want big engines, they wanted big engines that they really wanted running on their layout.  And when you look at all the steam that MTH had produced to-date, what is the first engine they picked to rerun.. probably the most famous of the large steam locomotives ever, the Union Pacific Big Boy.

[du-bousquetaire]

I totally agree, except that at one point your passion for model railroads warrants the extra effort to buy a more expensive model. Also I was insisting on the fact that so far the Aster, Accucraft models are a great deal for the price they sell at. In one case you have the mass produced model made from very expensive dies and molds, that still costs quite a large sum of money for a mass produced product. On the other side you have manufactured model in metals that last, adjusted and machined to good or excellent standards, that when you consider the amount of work involved in making it, is a steal. But I have no conflict with mass produced models at all and have quite a bitof them. I sincerly think we need both.

 Also the electric versions at Accucraft at least are sensibly cheaper than the live steam ones on the average I would say a good thousand bucks cheaper. There are still some SP F4 or F5 2-10-2 going at around $2500.

Your second point is where we totally agree, and that is why I feel that Forums like this one can play a big role in helping the manufactureres determine what models would sell most. It's not a question of big engine or small engine, agreed but how well the engine is reproduced and runs, that is what made a big difference in the examples you cited. And as I asked other people who joined this forum in another post, the best way to help this is for every body to tell what is on their want list. If nobody answers this plea they (the manufacturer like MTH) will never know what just people want. It isn't a tug of war of who yells most, it's a chance to pitch in and say just which engine is your dream engine. That's what can help the manufacturers, if a lot of people answer this very simple question: what engine would you like?

 Please pitch in your ballot.

[enginear joe]

I really don't have any of the high dollar engines. Looking at that alone, I'm not likely to go for one soon. I do drool over the electric Accucraft Allegheny. I almost ordered one. I can't get one even if I decided to.

I wonder if live steam owners are more willing to spend high dollars for an accurate well made model than track powered guys?

As a runner and not a collector, my buying says that #1 thing is the engine has to be a good runner. I'm not interested in something that needs to be babied.

I may have bought a USA BigBoy if it handled smaller curves. That price point is twice what I consider buying regularly.

I love modern diesels. So if someone made a premier modern diesel, lets say out of brass, that was state of the art in detail, I might be tempted to set a new buying level in my household.

AML still has not released their plastic GP60 models that I know of. There really hasn't been any choices for me in my interested era.

[du-bousquetaire]

I got into the high dollar stuff because I came into gauge one for live steam, although I was very lucky my first loco was a Basset and Lowke GNR Atlantic, I restored it and traded it a few years later for an Aster PLM pacific. That was my first and only loco for years. All I was able to buy was the Ouest oscillator 0-6-0. Then I scratch built a SNCF 2-D -2 9100 (a 4-8-4 electric) and a couple of French railcars, So I was running electrics and steam from the start. Then JVR offered me his 1-4-1 R at a bargain price. So I had another engine. Then the boys at Fulgurex knew me because we ran at exhibitions next to their stand. When I moved to the country they offered me a 2-3-2 U1 kit for a bargain price, and to pay for it I started to sell my HO collection in earnest. It sold so well I was later able to buy from JVR his Chapelon at a very bargain price... So my stud grew then I got a good job and bought new the 140C at list price and the Accucraft T1 Both were my first locos paid at list price! For the K4 which had not been planned for, I sold my PLM pacific to finance it., So all in all I only bought two engines at the real list price in my collection, otherwise I am like you guys i can't really afford those beauties. My last purchase visible on this forum cost me $50 it's a Lionel GP7. Now fitted with NWSL wheelsets it doesn't wobble any more, looks fine and has much better electrical pick up. Total cost was a bout less than a $100 bucks. So don't get me wrong when I defend brass they really give you your moneys worth is what I mean. When you build an Aster kit you begin to realise all the work that has been put into it for quite a reasonable price, compared to what you have in your hand. That is what I meant. I would like to see gauge one be a more democratic scale, unfortunatly right now, it's the collectors that run the show... Do send in your wants that 's what can help the manufacturers know what we want, happy steaming or railroading.

[Jim Miller]

The thing that discourages me from buying a big expensive engines is that they claim to require a huge curve to operate on. My layout can not handle them. That is one of the attractions to MTH and Aristo steam. 

[Yardtrain]

As far as steam I would really like a N&W J 611 &  NYC Dreyfuss Hudson 

In Diesel a GE Evolution w/ LED charging lights. 

[du-bousquetaire]

Great Yardtrain keep on handing in your wants folks this can really help the manufacturers determine what is most likely to sell.

 About wide radius that's the beauty with outdoor railroading most of the limitations we used to have indoors disapear except in some difficult cases.

[enginear joe]

5 hours ago, Yardtrain said:

As far as steam I would really like a N&W J 611 &  NYC Dreyfuss Hudson 

In Diesel a GE Evolution w/ LED charging lights. 

I apologize in advance, as this about steamers. If MTH makes a new GE model, I'll order 4 units right now. I prefer modern diesels. I just can't get my hands on many to run. So that's my vote.