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Protosound 3 upgrade kits - targeted for 2014


Rayman4449
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Hey there, sure can.. 

 

PS3:

- Increased memory capacity for sound files (higher quality sound) 

- All LED lighting instead of Incandescent.  (saves power and longer light life)

    - The future PS3 upgrade kits will have available a board that will allow the PS3 board to drive the existing PS2 incandscent lights to simplify upgrade.

- Auto 'Rule 17' lighting of the headlight (auto dims when idle for a period of time and brightens back up when commanded to move)

- Eliminates the need for a polarity switch on the engine

- Has improved signal processor which matches the type used in the new Rev L TIU.  So while you get greatly enhanced signal performance from a Rev L TIU with PS2 engines, you get an even greater benefit with PS3 engines and Rev L TIU.

- Eliminated the rechargeable battery pack (uses built in capacitors for backup power)

- Can be run and controlled in a DCC environment (DCC power and control).   See the below link for more info on DCC PS3:  

          - http://www.rayman4449.com/DCS_Overview_Videos.htm#Operating_PS3_Under_DCC

 

 

Other notes:

PS3 engines are fully backward compatible with all existing TIUs and Remotes.  

- PS3 boards use chips and components that are more easily sourced on the market which will ensure there are never supplier constraints in the future.  (i.e. should never be issues with getting PS3 board / upgrade kits in the future once they start making them)

- All current production MTH engines are being made with PS3 installed. (for the last year +)

- PS3 is available for HO and O.  (Boards for HO are different from O and are designed to accommodate the reduced space and amperage requirements of HO.)

- No MTH One Gauge engines have been produced yet with PS3 but all future production from 2013 on will come with PS3 installed.  

- The O gauge board was made with the One gauge line in mind so no additional design work should be required for the One Gauge roll-out.

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  • 1 month later...

Ray,

 

   Do you think I should upgrade the Annie or just leave it be?

 

                                           Cliff

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  • 2 months later...
 

The part about the track polarity and PS2 is not actually about changing the actual track polarity it's making sure the switch on the engine is set correctly for the given polarity on the track.  (All engines have polarity switches to allow this except for maybe a few of the very first run Challengers)

 

When you apply power to the layout you still need the power supply to provide power with correct polarity to the TIU (ie just keep the polarity switch on the power supply set the direction it needs to be), but the key difference with PS3 is at the engine level so you can set the engine on the track in either direction (because the engine obviously sees polarity internally differently based on which direction the engine is) the PS3 engine will be able to correctly receive commands through the track from the TIU without needing to manually direct polarity to the internal engine board with a polarity switch which is how it is with PS2.  

 

It's nice they have done this but I have found that when you run your layout under digital control I always have the power supply set the same way, the wires to the TIU the same way (ie permanently set) and the engines are (once set) usually run the same way so while on the surface it seems like it would be an issue, once you get your engines running you never think about polarity again.  You are familiar with how your layout is setup and how you normally run your engines and if you put an engine on the other way you will instinctively know you need to flip the switch on that engine.  You just turn on the power supply and go.  In my case the last time I had to set or mess with the polarity switch was when I first bought the engine and put it on the track for the first time and that was years ago.

 

If you do use your layout and power supply for variable analog power and change the power supply polarity, just glance at the polarity switch on the power supply and make sure it's in the correct direction and turn the power on.  The TIU wiring will remain the same so nothing to change there and probably recommend folks run their TIU in Passive mode and just always keep the TIU connected to the layout.  So if you just glance at the power supply polarity switch to make sure it's right for digital command mode, turn on the power and you're good.

 

The big picture is it boils down that for every control system you have things you need to remember in order to get your trains to operate.  When it comes down to sheer things to remember I have found most other control systems have remotes that have just a number pad with just number and arrows on them with no labels designated for whistle, bell, direction, smoke, sound volume etc buttons.  So you have to remember that #1 is whistle, #2 is bell etc (some being set differently/customized per engine) and have found far more things to remember to get them to operate and do what you want to do.  The DCS remote buttons all have specific functions and are labelled as such so there is far less to remember.  

 

I have written all this to not only clarify to others who are not familiar so they will understand but that they also understand the full context in the overall big picture.  I understand why some who don't currently run DCS on the surface might see this as some sort of really confusing thing but in practice it's really a non-issue and usually never has to enter your mind with each operating session.  On the other forums this polarity thing is made out by some to be a big deal by individuals to actively discourage people to not want to run DCS or buy MTH trains so readers have to be careful on what they read... here you get feedback from those who actually run them and can tell you how it really is.  

 

That said I am glad PS3 has this enhancement as it is definitely one less thing to have to think about.   :)

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"this polarity thing is made out by some to be a big deal by individuals"

Although there are several people that do this, one in particular, comes to mind first! I have always believed that he (and the rest) made a choice of control, and will not allow any other choice to be made, by anyone! ??? Dah, Ok.

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Ray,

 

Thanks for clarifying!  I have a turntable and I vary the direction they get spotted on the apron track by pure whim.  At the moment, I don't actually have a 'roundhouse', so they're sitting outside.  But, if I understand correctly,  If the loco is one way vs the other, and using PS2, I'd have to manually flip a switch.  So, yeah, the internalization of that function to the locomotive itself is a bonus for me!

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Sure thing :)  I can definitely see in that case where it will be more of an issue.  Yes that is right on the engine switch.  I'm guessing there will be two different scenarios you will encounter where you may drive a train on to the turn table, flip it around and drive it off and I guess the other where it will just be started up and driven off in a direction different then when it last ran.  

 

Just as an FYI under PS2 for the times you run the engine on the turntable and want turn it around, since I'm sure you are running DC power you will need to flip a polarity switch on the turntable track to keep it from shorting as when you flip it the rails on the layout and the turntable will be opposite polarity.  When you flip the polarity switch on the turntable just flip the swtich on the engine.  The engine in this case would still be powered up and flipping the polarity switch on the engine won't affect anything or cause it to shut down.  So just flip each switch and drive the engine off in the other direction.

 

For the times when you are powering up the engine from scratch, if you don't remember which way the polarity switch is, you can just power it up and then hit the startup button on the remote.  If the engine doesn't respond, cut power, flip the polarity switch on the engine and power backup and you will be fine.  The engine will stay put and see the watchdog signal so the engine will stay in place even if the polarity switch is the wrong way the only diff is it wont respond to remote commands.  Another more precise way to tell if the polarity switch is set correctly when running under DC power is to listen to the relay clicks in the engine (which are easily heard) when you first apply power to the engine.  If the switch is correct you will hear two clicks (which sometimes sounds like one from a distance).  If incorrect you will hear three clicks with two at first like normal but will hear a third final click slightly delayed.  

 

All new production will have PS3 so if you did end up getting anything if you get the new stuff you'll be good to go :)

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Well, the turntable track itself is unpowered. It gets power when I connect the rail joiners (by sliding them) to the apron tracks or turntable lead track, as each of those has power (and polarity the same way, for ease of wiring).

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Gotcha ok.  In this case, the engine will be unpowered for some more extended period of time which will cause it to self-powerdown/shutdown.  When you reapply power to the turntable you will need to either:  (and this is for PS2 or PS3)

 

1)  Hit the READ button to force the TIU to resend the watchdog signal to make sure the engine knows it is to operate under control via the remote (and not auto-power up and run under variable track power.

 

2)  Consider getting a DCS remote commander set and wiring the Commander signal box into the turntable track (passively) so it will auto send the signal when the unpowered section of track gets power.  (http://www.gscaletrainforum.com/index.php?/topic/115-adding-engines-to-dcs-layout-from-unpowered-siding-dcs-remote-commander-tip/)

 

OR 

 

3)  You could also cycle power to the layout if there are no other engines running. (and when TIU power ups it will send the watchdog signal) 

 

 

I'm providing all this info not only so you know ahead of time and know what to expect but also for others who may be reading/researching later  :)

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  • 1 month later...

 On the contrary, I think this polarity indiference that is announced for PS 3 might just be a very usefull item in the following cases: Right now my layout does not have a wye but I plan to install one for two reasons: One is based on US railroad practices: Very often Passenger trains are turned before entering a large terminal(I have photos of PRR Saint Louisan entering Saint Louis terminal backwards this way), so that the head end cars are behind the engine and observations are on the tail end. Also this helps people detraining not thaving to walk by the head end equipment. I have an indoor terminus and do want to install this as soon as time permits. This would of course inverse the direction of the locomotive, creating a problem with PS2 locos. If it reads that and automatically adjusts, that would suit me fine. I also want to install the wye for turning long engines: My T1, or diesel lash ups, or visiting friends articulateds. There is also the case of the turntable although it is quite easy to flip the direction switch while the loco is on the table. But think of those of us who have return loops on their layouts! Such a system if it is automatic can be a real boon for these cases. Although I agree with Raymond in that I doubt that I will modify my locos. All my best,

Simon

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  • 4 weeks later...

Some new information on the pending PS3 upgrade kits...

 

MTH is working on a daughter-board that will allow the PS3 board to drive the existing incandescent bulbs on PS2 engines and also allow it to read the PS2 optical reader.  So the PS3 upgrade kit will be a direct drop-in install/upgrade.  

 

You will be able to load the existing PS2 files to the PS3 board.  An updated secondary file that is used as a part of PS3 sound files will be updated and provided for this purpose and so we should see this provided for all prior released engines with PS2.  So again, this will be a direct drop in upgrade to PS3.

 

Time frame is still 2014.

 

Video from the Fall 2013 TCA Open House:

 

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  • 10 months later...

I've heard that a sample of the PS3 upgrade kit is in beta.  

 

No idea on when they will actually be available, but based on what I've heard it sounds like they have been designed and getting close.  

 

Will keep everyone here posted as I hear more.

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  • 1 year later...

FYI to everyone, I now have the new PS3 boards to upgrade existing PS2 engines.  Please visit my website and email me if interested.   

 

I have also updated the "Protosound 3 thread" here:  http://www.gscaletrainforum.com/index.php?/topic/429-protosound-3-whats-new-with-mths-ps3-vs-ps2/ 

 

 

Also wanted to share another benefit of going to the new PS3 (this is for both factory and upgrade PS3 boards)... in the past if an engine (that was being powered by DC power) missed/didn't sense the TIU initial power up signal, it would start up with lights and sound and start up running at full track power speed (thinking it should be running under analog power).  The PS3 boards no longer do that.  If a PS3 engine misses that signal it will power up lights and sound but stay put and not actually move.  This brings the behavior of how engines operated under AC power now to DC (as this is how the PS2 engines operated under AC power).

 

PS3 will be a worth while upgrade for us in G scale.  

 

 

To recap the key benefits for G scale/One Gauge:

 

  - Significantly improved signal processor on the engine board.  (If you have had signal/communication issues in the past on your layout, this should resolve it or significantly reduce any issues.  Best results, run PS3 with Rev L TIU)

        - This is relevant for G scale because of the much larger size of the layouts and conditions faced outdoors.

  - Improved audio amplifier for higher sound quality

  - PS3 sound files:  Can now load these to your engine which have greatly enhanced sound quality.

  - No more missed TIU start up signals:  Engines stay put and will not move if they miss the TIU startup signal on initial power up.  (Applies to DC power operation)

         If you had engines missing the signal in the past moving to PS3 should eliminate or greatly reduce this happening.

  - Eliminates the need for the polarity switch on the engine as the PS3 board is no longer polarity sensitive.  

  - Eliminates the need for the on-board rechargeable battery pack (the only maintenance item you had on the engine)

  - Can now run under DCS or DCC.

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  • 1 month later...

Thinking about changing my non MTH G scale engines to proto 3. Would this be feasible? If so,what is my next step? I have LGB, AristoCraft, USA and Bachmann engines.Can you give me some idea of the cost?

 

I wired my AIU as instructed for DC power two wire switch motor. When activated I heard a click from AIU, but no motion from motor.

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