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rbrown7713

In series 12 volt motors did not work.

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:(I am powering NWSL trucks 12 volts,  with MTH power 24 volts.  I thought by running them in series would work, but it did not.  The motors ran erratically. sometimes one would start and the other would not, and also the other way around, so I went back to the parallel configuration and they ran without issue. I just thought I would share this failure. Robert Brown.

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Thank you for sharing that, I remember hearing recently about this either here or somewhere else and was wondering how this would actually work in practice.

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I just talked to an MTH tech. today, I don't know why I didn't do this 2 months ago, but anyway, I asked what voltage was applied to the motors in one gauge locos, and he said it is controlled  from 0 to 12 volts by the controller in the locomotive.  So all of the worry about thinking that 24 volts was applied to the motors was bogus.  The 24 volts is applied to the TIU, but the processor in the loco controls, via the speed controller, from 0 to 12 volts depending on the setting of the throttle,  Robert Brown.

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Robert,  

 

I don't know who you spoke with but that is not correct, it's not limited to 12v.  If you have the SMPH turned up up to the max of 120SMPH and the motor isn't spinning up to 120smph speed it will keep adding power till it gets to the right speed or will just feed full power which will be a volt or two lower than track voltage.  

 

If the DCS board's voltage output to the motors was limited to 12v there is no way the conversions I've done of non-MTH engines would have operated at any sort of reasonable top speed.  

 

This video of my USA Hudson shows what I mean.  You don't get these kinds of speeds out of a USA Hudson, on Stainless Steel track, under digital control with 12v to the motor.  With a DCS protosound board installed I can make a USA Hudson haul ***.  The upgrade motor (which is for all uses, track power or digital control power) I have for them does help this as well.

 

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Well, I guess the tech. guy, Jeffery,  says that the voltage, 0 to 12 volts, to the motors in Gauge one MTH locos, is controlled by the processor in the loco regardless of the track voltage of 24 volts to the TIU, so I guess Jeffery doesn't know what he is talking about.  I wonder where I can get the correct information?  I remember Lionel trains going that fast and they weren't 24 volt motors nor 24 volts supplied. Robert Brown

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I will say that I'm guessing they are used to their other engines like in O gauge having 12v motors where the board will only need to output up to 12v to get max speed at max setting of 120SMPH.  So it probably reflects knowledge he has within a standard operating environment that he is used to, so from what he is used to that is probably what they see.

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Well, I guess the tech. guy, Jeffery,  says that the voltage, 0 to 12 volts, to the motors in Gauge one MTH locos, is controlled by the processor in the loco regardless of the track voltage of 24 volts to the TIU, so I guess Jeffery doesn't know what he is talking about.  I wonder where I can get the correct information?  I remember Lionel trains going that fast and they weren't 24 volt motors nor 24 volts supplied. Robert Brown

 

I just told you the answer, what else are you looking for?

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Just to follow-up, so I can provide a specific example I tested one of my MTH One Gauge Big Boys on the bench and at 101SMPH the front motor leads were seeing 19.3volts. (this was confirmed with a voltmeter.)  So again, the board does not cap output at an absolute voltage of 12v, it will continue to increase voltage to the motors till it sees from the optical sensor that the motor is going the speed that has been requested by the remote.  His figures may be based on what he sees with O gauge but that is not now the board operates.  It may only need to go up to 12 volts for O gauge but it is not hard capped at 12v.

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I did the same thing and you are right.  At 60 mph, my volt meter read 12 volts and beyond that the voltage increased, but the motors sounded like they were going to explode.  I wonder why he would tell me something like that.  This time I sent MTH an information request for more technical information, so let's see what they say.  Robert Brown.

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I think the reason he believes that is because of what he is probably used to seeing in O gauge, but even on my factory PS2 test set (used to test PS2 boards) I had the mounted O gauge motor beyond 16v (don't remember the dialed SMPH).  I mean most cases most users likely never go much beyond 60smph.  If the motors were sounding loud it was vibration most likely from the flywheel, but either way you're hitting some sort of harmonic vibration that has to do with the way the flywheel is lathed or motor.

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Well, running my E8, I will probably never go faster than 50, that's fast enough for me, after all, I want to be able to see and enjoy it.  Thanks for your getting me straight. Robert Brown.

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Anytime Robert :)  That's one of the good things about having these forums.  I agree that you like most probably won't be going that fast either.  The only engines I run fast are passenger steam with the larger diam drivers.  At least the capability is there if you need it.  

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