Mike1083 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Its getting to be about that time of year and well i am now in the mountains in a house and i am looking to expand on my Christmas layout. I've decided to upgrade from the BR80 to the BR64 this year for my passenger train but i also have the Piko Christmas boxcars and i am going to need an engine for those to run separate. It just didn't look right to me having the box car with the passenger cars. I was hoping to have a Mth steam to pull them but i waited too long on the triplex and now they are impossible to find, so its looking like the USA trains diesels are the only option now or i could just use the extra BR64 that i plan on having. I was hoping to get some info on the gp7 and the Alco s4 diesel that USA offers in Christmas schemes. Does anyone have either of these engines in a different paint scheme or even the Christmas versions? Are they built to last? The price of these seems very cheap compared to Mth diesels, so it kind of raises an eyebrow..Is it even worth just buying a diesel for 1 month out of the year or should i just use the extra BR64 to pull the boxcars and maybe get a year round diesel for the garden? I find myself all over the place trying to decide what to do and this forum seems to have a lot of great folks with great knowledge so i figured this would be the place to get some wise advice. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Hi Mike, On the USA 2 axle diesels there are no real serious concerns to be worried about. The only issue that comes up with the USA 2 axle diesels is the split plastic gears and eventual wearing out if you run them long and hard enough. http://www.rayman4449.com/USA_Trains_F-3_GP7_GP9_GP30_GP38-2_NW-2_Mods.htm#Wheel_not_turning_grinding_sound_Damaged_stripped_axle_gear - Worn out gears http://www.rayman4449.com/USA_Trains_F-3_GP7_GP9_GP30_GP38-2_NW-2_Mods.htm#Engine_wobbles_when_running_Cracked_axle_gear_assembly - Cracked gears. Note that when the gear cracks and splits far enough the axle end will spin inside the gear causing the engine to lose the ability to get any tractive pull effort from that axle end so it necessitates it being replaced. The positive thing about the USA 2 axle motor block is they are easy to open up and replace the gear and axles. (unlike the Aristocraft 2 and 3 axle blocks that use the sealed green gear boxes which are a real chore to get apart and get to the gears for replacement. And also there is the issue with the Aristocraft blocks/gears is at this point you can't get parts for them so if they break you are out of luck.) The USAs are like $10.00 per axle w/gear so if you do have issues it's not that expensive to fix. (I think I have heard that there may be another production run of Aristocraft Dash-9s made at some point in the future. If that is the case then I'm certain extra drive train parts will be made and be available again) Regarding the difference in price the difference is: with the MTH you are getting the lights, smoke (with big MTH G scale smoke unit installed), sound, speaker, protocouplers(remote fired couplers) and digital control all already built in and get motor blocks with all solid metal axles and all metal gears. (With the metal gears you don't have the cracking and stripping issues.) With the USA engine you get the lights, smoke unit (O gauge size) and motor blocks with plastic axle gears. So you lack the sound, speaker, remote fired couplers (auto couplers) and digital control that you have to add later yourself or pay someone to install and configure for you. So I wouldn't look at the price difference being mainly a difference because of overall quality (the USA engine has really excellent detail), it just doesn't have some of the features built in that the MTH engine does, so you are paying for things you don't get in the other engine. Regarding the concern about the lower cost of the USA engine, the only key difference I would say there is in quality is the how the motorblocks are built. The other thing I will add is that with Aristocraft going out of business it now makes me think more about the long term future durability of my trains. If a mfg goes under, can you get the necessary parts to repair them if they have parts prone to fail or will fail after heavy enough wear? In the case of the USA 2 axle engines you can also get replacement plastic gears from NWSL (Northwest Shortline) that I think are made out of a really durable plastic like Delrin or something that should be less prone to cracking and should wear a bit better but they are still plastic. So at this point it does offer a second place to get these critical parts if you ever need them. All of that said if USA produced a diesel I really wanted I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. If I was buying a 2 axle engine I would probably immediately order a set of NWSL gears and replace them right off the bat and keep the originals as a backup. (I seem to recall each gear from NWSL is like $15.00 each so if you were to upgrade right away would run you about $60.00 I think). Hope that helps some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markoles Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I would add my caution with the USA diesel smoke unit: Do not operate them without smoke fluid in them and watch them like a hawk! I had one catch fire. Not good under a Christmas tree...I was looking at the MTH site and noticed that there are a few triplexes out there, stiil. Go to the MTH homepage and do a product search. I have no idea if the retailers listed actually have the locomotives, and I doubt you'll find them for $800 or whatever, but if ya gotta have it, ya gotta have it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Ouch on the smoke unit! Was it in a USA engine on stock electronics or was it after-market install? Good info on the triplexes, given that they only just recently sold out there should be some dealers that do have them and should be some on ebay periodically for a while. If someone wants one in their collection now is the time to get it, do not wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1083 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Thanks guys for all the great info, it is indeed appreciated. I think i will stay away from the USA trains for now and try my luck one more time with finding a place that has a triplex. update Well i just decided to call around me looking for that triplex and discovered a hudson with model number 70-3001-1. Apparently its just been sitting in a display case all this time. I am a little nervous because that model has just been sitting for a crazy amount of years. Should i jump on this immediately? Is it possible the engine could have issues? The gentleman said its only been run on a few feet of track to make sure everything was good and then it went into their display case. I think i am going to go tomorrow morning and get it. Is there anything i should be looking for? Any issues with this engine i should look for? I feel like i just stumbled upon a huge hunk of gold. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The engine sitting won't be an issue. Maybe the battery will need to be charged but that's it. With the MTH Hudson there is only one real modification I've done to mine and that was to open up the hole around where the smoke stack fits into the engine to relieve the pressure from a really tight fit. Other than that, that's really it. Even if you felt like yours would probably benefit from this same thing but didn't do it, I wouldn't view it as critical. If you want that engine I'd go get it, hard to find new ones around. http://www.rayman4449.com/MTH_Hudson_mods.htm#Smoke_stack_stress_relief Keep us posted on how you make out! Raymond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1083 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 The engine sitting won't be an issue. Maybe the battery will need to be charged but that's it. With the MTH Hudson there is only one real modification I've done to mine and that was to open up the hole around where the smoke stack fits into the engine to relieve the pressure from a really tight fit. Other than that, that's really it. Even if you felt like yours would probably benefit from this same thing but didn't do it, I wouldn't view it as critical. If you want that engine I'd go get it, hard to find new ones around. http://www.rayman4449.com/MTH_Hudson_mods.htm#Smoke_stack_stress_relief Keep us posted on how you make out! Raymond Fantastic news. Im going for it! I will post photos as soon as i get it. Sure am glad i decided to give it another go around looking for that triplex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyborg1 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Hi Mike! Just wanted to let you know that SideTrack Hobbies in Leonardtown, MD. (301-475-8985) has a Erie Triplex listed for $899.00. It's the M70-3022-1 bluish-gray Russian Iron one. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The NWSL gear replacement for F3 & GP38-2 etc. is part no. 2165-6 is now priced @ $24.95 each and measures 33 Teeth x 21mm. Wow! $100.00 per 4 axle engine to upgrade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1083 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hi Mike! Just wanted to let you know that SideTrack Hobbies in Leonardtown, MD. (301-475-8985) has a Erie Triplex listed for $899.00. It's the M70-3022-1 bluish-gray Russian Iron one. Joe Man oh man that sounds like a sweet deal. I just got home with the hudson and am in the process of uploading photos. I may have to do some shenaggling...lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markoles Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The smoke unit was in my old USAT 44-tonner locomotive. Nothing modified, running straight track power. Smoke unit ran dry while I wasn't watching (how often does that happen?), and then there was awesome smoke! I had a 4" flame out the top of the cab roof. USAT sold me a new cab and new internals for my trouble. Not my favorite experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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