Chuck Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 I'll start off by saying I do like the USA Trains line of track switches. Most locomotives and cars roll thru them very nice & smooth. The trackwork is darn near perfect and points are actually slotted so they'll tuck in under the stock rails...when they work correctly. I have had Aristo #6 switch but gave up on them. Rails are loose in the ties, frog sits higher than the adjoining rails and trains just sort of "bump" thru them. I remember when Aristo and later Train-Li had "shims" to raise the bottom of the frog so as to help cars from bumping when rolling thru. But the USA #6 has it's problems. Here's my main concern and that is when the points pull away from the diverging stock rail they arc. I've had dozens of these over the years and most all exhibit this weird trait. What I don't like about it the most is the voltage spike that's being sent down the rails. Also the current draw will actually cause lights in cars to momentarily dim. Here I caught it on video. Here's a closeup of the arc area... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Chuck, yes I do have some of those shims that Aristocraft sent to switch buyers as an after thought. The arching is very plain, and strong enough to burn the rail, wow. Not something one want's on the rails, and the effect on the rolling stock isn't a good idea either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 Nick, Yes on the shim afterthought but the Aristo switches are still the only ones available that match the U.S. tie spacing in code 332 rail. Could buy Sunset Valley switches but then the code 250 to 332 mismatch happens. It's a wonder somebody hasn't filled that void. Why the arcing with the USA switches is a many faceted problem with the major flaw being how the frog is wired. Maybe a better way to put it is the engineering behind how power is routed to the frog. Here's the underside of the twin coiled switch machine housing. Twin coiled makes me think all that they did was copy the Atlas HO & O scale track switches. Never mind the 6 piece capacitor bank on the left with the 2 black and 1 red wire as that's to fire the solenoids. To the right of that cap bank is the microswitch or cherry switch with hot glue that routes power to the frog and has red, black & green wires. Here shows the red wire going to outer diverging stock rail, green wire to straight stock rail and black going to one point rail. Then black jumper wires going from each point rail to the closure rails. Here shows more black jumpers going from closure rails to the frog. So the micro switch is powering the points, closure rails and frog. Problem is the micro switch will "trip" and change polarity of all that before the points have a chance to move. Crappy design I say. In the past what I did was change that wiring so that micro switch only powered the frog as I isolated the frog from the closure rails as they touch. So remove those rails and shorten them a bit then reinstall using bits of styrene as an insulator. That's all good and fine but the switch machine solenoids need 18V ac to work and that power tends to melt the dwarf signals and burn out the bulbs. Like this as can see how the cover has started melting after maybe 8 hours of use. This one the bulb for the top green aspect has already burned out. Tomorrow I'll post more pics of the crappy solenoid machine design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Here's the twin coils that activate the switch. The set of open contacts operate the dwarf signal. I had troubles from the start with this switch as the point for the diverging route wasn't closing properly and engines would pick it then short out the layout. This is as far as it would go. Ended up being the point rails were just a bit to long and they'd bind against the closure rails. So removed them both and sanded a bit off the ends. So I could see just how much material I was removing I just use a black Sharpie and "paint" the rail end a bit. I just wan to remove maybe half that line. I did just that and reinstalled. Now it works just fine. Okay as here the switch is working fairly well. Once I put the cover back on and tightened down this mechanism started acting up by not throwing the points tight against the diverging rail aka straight thru. They use a piece of spring steel between that "bellcrank" and throwbar. Bending that a bit to help point "close tighter" works but then that throws off the frog polarity switch setting. Here's same but switch set for diverging... This plug for controller is bad as one of the wires make intermittent contact. It's a sealed unit which is basically 4 female spade terminals encased in rubber/ plastic and non-serviceable. Believe it or not this switch is still under warranty but USA Trains service told me any switch sent in for warranty work is returned as a manual switch...yeah real nice. So I've decided to abandon this "fine" setup and convert these switches to use the Aristo-Craft ART11298 Slow Motion switch machines. I have a bunch of these brand new. Al Kramer of San Val Trains told me long ago to go this route. Infact he's trying to get Bachmann to start making them again. Test fit and run...works just fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash 8 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Hi Chuck, very well explained. The switch motors are less susceptible to interference and can dcc with a decoder, I use feather motors in analog with 12 volts DC. Another method is operation with servo motors. For the frogs you can also take frog juicer, unfortunately there are only for small amperes. Regards Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 Hi Jan, Servo motors is an interesting concept, easily obtained and reasonably priced...hmm. The Aristo-Craft machines I'm using operate on either 12 or 24V DC and stall out and have a relay for frog power or operating a signal light. I've been thinking about using compressed air but that brings along it's set of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 I use the Bachmann switch stand (manual) and have wired up a dbl thro switch to power the frog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 Sean, I've seen those and wondered how they held up. I can't use them in some spots as indoor layout have some switches that are in real inaccessible areas or way out of reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 9 hours ago, Chuck said: Sean, I've seen those and wondered how they held up. I can't use them in some spots as indoor layout have some switches that are in real inaccessible areas or way out of reach. Some have been known to use a choke cable..to extend their reach . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Quote Maxwell Smart "ah yes, the old choke cable trick". Just havin' fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 I use my DCS handheld remote and throw my switches from anywhere in the immediate vicinity...that's why I chose to use Command Control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 Finally got around to finishing this project/ upgrade whatever. Here I shortened the closure rails a bit and using some bits of .020 styrene electrically isolated the frog. Mounted the Aristo slow motion switch machine and using the auxiliary contacts to power frog. Closure rails and points are powered and jumpered. Frog is powered via switch machine. Beefed up jumpers though I feed track power on both sides of switches so wiring only has to carry load thru switch itself. I'm real happy with end results. Nice slow throws works very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Chuck, that slo mo switch is great, and I like the sound effect. it was a very good idea to insert the plastic to insulate the frog. I had a 'swinging' short on my outside rail this spring. Drove me crazy. Train would hit the frog and stall. Take it inside and test with a meter, all OK. Reinstall it, ran fine. Next day same thing all over again. This time the meter showed the frog had the wrong polarity?? FINALLY DAWNED ON ME. The track was expanding in the sun and shorting the frog, and that little device that Aristo put in was doing it's job protecting it. It took 14 years for the track to 'walk' enough to do that. I ground down the frog, reinstalled the turnout and since then no more problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash 8 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Hello Chuck, successful, this is the best solution for the turnout drive as well as the circuit for the Frog. By the way, you mentioned the pneumatic systems, I was looking for a long time, Sunset Valley Railroad does something like that.SVR Regards Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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