enginear joe Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXUuvjJD6Yc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well I used to do crank back in the late 70's...so I know how those engines feel Seriously...You ever find out why they're doing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I had a similar problem with a MTH H0 PS3+ engine. It was a bad connection to the tacho board. When the tacho board was properly connected, the problem disappeared. I don’t know it rhe OneGauge PS2 have a tacho board, but if so… Bjorn Sorry missed the reply. Yes what you are describing sounds like the reader is out of position, likely too far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Nope. I did get an email with a question of just exactly what I'm comparing their speed to ( I have over twenty of their stock engines in G scale). Nothing more after that. Midge suggested I talk it over with a tech, when I was discussing the duplicate rear fixed pilot issue. It seems like pulling teeth whenever there's warranty issues. I am tired of sticking up for a company that appears not to care. I have no choice, as I still prefer their DCS system overall. So I have an extensive collection of their products and have learned to service them myself. I feel sorry for any of their dealers that don't get backed up on warranty issues. I think overall it's just the nature of the import game. I will continue my search on my own for the reason. It's just too fast! Maybe the high track voltage messed something up?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 I swear it's the sound file!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 On the video I have never ever seen or heard of anything like that in any scale. That this is going on with a PS2 and PS3 engine makes no sense. There is some piece of information or something that is missing here. I agree it would seem like the sound file but you haven't changed that right? Did you get MTH to provide a copy of the PS3 sound file for the new engine? Download an updated soundfile from MTH or my website for your PS2 engine and see if that makes a difference. Regarding the dealers, I think the dealers should be able to handle repair and diagnosis themselves without relying on the mfg otherwise why are customers buying from them? I have heard that most dealers (regardless what they are selling) have no idea how to fix them and just send the customer back to the mfg. But then again many customers today are so price sensitive that they buy only from the lowest price reseller and often they are only a high volume clearing house which means no help or if there is help available they have so many customers they can't possibly support all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I do know how to put this to rest, send me that PS2 engine and I'll test run it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 How about the new PS3 engine too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I would say just do the PS2 engine for now, just need one engine really to confirm where the issue is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Ok Ray and thanks. I will put her in the mail. I need to dig out the box first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blid Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Dear Ray and others: I’m just curios if I have got this right about the MTH speed control. I think the tacho board just gives a number to the decoder. This number is a count of the number of black and white stripes passing the light sensitive sensor of the tacho board during a specific time frame. The stripes are on a tape on the edge of a wheel that is part of the drivetrain. The number of stripes correspond to a rotation of the drive wheels as well. This relates to a certain distance along the tracks. Thus the number corresponds to a speed. The decoder needs to know a factor to translate this to SMPH. Since you are talking about the sound file, my guess is that there is where the factor is stored. Correct? For the SMPH on the handheld to be equal to the actual SMPH the engine is moving all three components must be matching; the stripes on the tacho wheel (I refer to it as the tacho tape), the diameter of the drive wheel and the factor (in the sound file?). For a given speed command, the decoder adjusts the power to the motor until the tacho board gives the corresponding number. With the problem I had, the value from the tacho board was zero all the time, and therefore the power was increased to top speed. Please correct me where I’m wrong. Bjorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 I was referring to the problem described by grr7315, but I am happy it was of help to you too. Joe: it seems like your taco tape is for smaller wheels. I’m sure others can tell how to change the tape to correspond to you wheels. I don’t have the skills to open the engines, but I think I understand the technology. Bjorn I should have responded to this earlier. I don't have the technical skills but I know enough to hurt! All the Dash 8s I've looked at have a factory painted flywheel. I believe they have a given number of stripes. I believe you're on about the technology even if the exact stuff maybe off. I don't know if the tach sensor sends zero volts as you posted or full pass thru for full speed for example, as I believe they do. That would be easy to find out. I just replaced it with a new one from the factory. This whole thing to me got interesting when the new PS3 showed up and exactly matched the faster speed of the bad (fast) PS2 model. That is a coincidence? I'm sure I did something wrong as everyone who has responded has said! I know I didn't describe the speed correctly as it's almost twice as fast as it should be. What % that is, I don't know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blid Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Joe, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread but the title is about speed problems. I may sound as I know what I am talking about but I don’t. I don’t even open my engines to have a look inside. I am not into electronics and I think like the computer guy I once was. What I see is three interdependent components. If one is changed, one of the others will have to be changed as well – if you want the same end result. I find it alarming that your new PS3 engine seems to go about twice as fast as it is supposed to. How can you have anything to do with that? I suspect that the decoder has the wrong "factor" as I called it in my previous post. My guess is that the value is supposed to be for one SMPH but is in fact for about two SMPH. It is probably for an engine in another scale. I have revised my assumptions about the value from the tacho board. I now think that it measures the time from the start of a white field until the start of the next. Same principle and the same components involved. Bjorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 You can't hijack my threads! They ramble on about different stuff and I love to discuss everything! I am not a tech. I don't really know all that much about electronics. I'm more into the mechanics and get involved so I know how to maintain and fix minor problems. I think you understand the principal operation of the PS boards and we would need more facts to discuss our theories! If I receive a product and out of the box it does not perform correctly, I would expect the warranty to come into play. Sometimes it feels like it only comes into play if it does not run at all. I then get comments like it must be me or I don't know what I'm talking about. I've learned that both can be true so I try to be patient. I have a large amount of MTH engines. I have repaired several dozen of them. I have learned most of what's going on inside enough to know when there's something wrong. I will wait for Ray's opinion. I should have gotten care from MTH directly, but I understand that it does run so maybe it is me after all. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAZGRR7315 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Sorry, deleted my post; repeated myself... age??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 grr7315, I think as you may recall already noted for your engine that you need to check your optical reader spacing. As far as Joe's issue I have confirmed he had a spacing issue as well with his optical reader on the PS2 engine he sent in and I suspect the other engine is the same. So it was a relatively simple correction. For those that buy engines through me I will make sure each new engine is fully tested for any issues ahead of time to avoid any chance of an issue when it's finally received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Boy, Now that's what I call customer service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Well I'll be interested to see the cure for sure! I now have another engine doing it. http://mthtrains.com/70-2017-1 If I set it at 30MPH, the regular engine has to be set at 55 MPH to keep up. I don't see a easy way to lesson the gap. The reader is soldered flat on a board. I thought the pins used to stick out so you could adjust the spacing? There's not much on the cover to grind off and it doesn't look easy anyways. I think it maybe easier to obtain a reader that sticks out more? I will try a replacement with medium spacer and see if it fixes this. If not, I'd be tempted to add tape to the flywheel to make the diameter larger, and add the tach tape on top of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 OK, by using a MTH tach reader with medium spacer (Ag0000047 I believe?), This engine now runs correctly. It's not the perfect match. I took the medium spacer and cut the ends, so half of their thickness is off. The ends of the spacer stick out and prevent the new reader from sitting fully into the recess. I believe if it did go fully in, it maybe too close then? So the spaced tach now actually sits at a slight angle. It works! and that's what matters to me. I'll try and post a picture to help anyone else out. I still struggle to believe I've got the only ones that run fast. This last engine, I got used. I have a sneeky feeling that the speed is the reason it was actioned off. So now I have to contact MTH and see what the number is for a reader with medium spacer # is for a PS3 engine?? Maybe they'll see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 It was suggested that on some PS3 engines, the tach reader's gap maybe adjustable. Not on these! Man, these are tiny. I hope they make them with spacers! or I'll have to start grinding..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Well, I must admit that after placing a pre-order at an agreed lower price, getting the engine way later and then being billed for full price + ignoring the $25 deposit, then being ignored that the engine ran too fast, clouded my judgement on how to proceed. Remember this is the second brand new engine in a row with this issue. I just took a dremel to the darn truck and grinded it down! It ain't pretty, but it did work. No picture of my grindings here. So looking at what Ray had said, was correct. Just fix it. I just don't like the warranty program. I do, love the engine though. The LEDs are a big improvement and I didn't need to throw any polarity switch either. There are a few positives. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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