New manufacturer - new diesel (European)

[SteamPower4ever]

Hi all.

 

You may not know the Danish manufacturer Heljan, but they've been around as long as I can remember. Back when I was a kid, their plastic kits were the ones to get in H0 when you wanted buildings on the layout. For Danish prototypes anyway.

Back then the Con-Cor logo was on the Heljan catalogue along with their own logo, and the logos are remarkably similar, so a lot of Con-Cor molds were - and I guess still are - made by Heljan.

 

Some years ago they entered the H0 rolling stock market with Danish and later UK models of rolling stock. With great success, except for the steamers, which were a rickety bunch. Their passenger coaches, freight cars and diesels are just great, though. Later they moved into 0 Gauge, primarily in the UK market, but they have made a Danish class MY diesel, which has had somewhat mixed reviews.

 

Recently they have presented the first prototype of the MY diesel in gauge 1.

 

 

As first shots go, this is spot on as far as I can see. Some details are still missing, but they do know that, and it will be fixed before production.

 

For many years the MY and it's smaller sister the MX was the backbone of the Danish State Railways, and they are still in service in Denmark, Sweden and Germany, so I'm sure Heljan will come up with a lot of different paint schemes eventually, even though only four schemes are announced for the first run.

 

The type was originally also used in Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg and Hungary - although with minor differences - so there's a chance for a larger market here too.

 

Anyone from the US recognize the shape of the loco?

Sure enough, it's a GM with a 567 prime mover, and the European locos where derived from the F7 and built in Sweden by Nydquist & Holm AB (Nohab). They have something of a cult following at least in northern Europe - affectionally known as 'Nohabs' or 'round noses'.

 

The price indication is reasonable - 1600 Euro with DCC sound v4 by ESU.

A lot of people are looking forward to this one 

 

Jens

[Rayman4449]

Pretty cool Jens!  Thanks for sharing that and the details.  Will you be getting one?

[SteamPower4ever]

Actually I don't think so.

 

I'm sure at least half of the guys at the club will get one, so they're going to be around on the layout. Besides, with the F7s, I will have my own GMs, so I get both worlds. 

[Chuck]

I remember seeing HO Heljan kits listed in Walthers catalogs back in the late 60's & 70's...or maybe in Model Railroader. Heljan always had a far away from some mysterious land quality about them...well for a kid here in the states   

 

Concor & Athearn seemed to always come out with the same diesel locomotive back in those days...healthy competition.

 

That Heljan Nohab is nice! At first glance I thought it was a KM hydraulic

[SteamPower4ever]

I think Heljan and Walthers are still doing business.

Some of the present day Cornerstone buildings were in the Heljan catalogs ages ago, and I seem to recall that the H0 and N scale Cornerstone turntables are made by Heljan too.

 

We have been talking to some of the guys from Heljan who are into gauge 1 themselves, and I've been trying to convince them to make a type PB freight car. This was the most common type in Denmark, and they can be used in practically all time periods. They're certainly not dismissing the idea, but I think they want to see how the MY is received before moving forward with new models.

I need 4-5 of those PBs for my brown coal train  , but other guys are calling out for passenger coaches for the MY.

 

We'll see.

For now, I applaud their entry into gauge 1 and hope for their success.

 

Jens

[Grant-Kerr]

These were made by Clyde under license from EMD in Granville Sydney in 1952 for Victorian Railways. Only bulldog nose double ended diesels in the world. Some of them are still operating as rebuilt units except for this one which was restored to original condition as is the S class behind it. (Single ended)

[SteamPower4ever]

Only bulldog nose double ended diesels in the world.

 

Umm ... what's a bulldog nose, then?

All the Nohabs were all double-ended too.

[Grant-Kerr]

Umm ... what's a bulldog nose, then?

All the Nohabs were all double-ended too.

Classic FT F3 F7 F9 E8 E9 Nose

[SteamPower4ever]

OK- I see what you mean.

The Nohabs have slightly lower noses and larger windows. Also, the Nohab noses are more rounded on the top.

The Heljan molds can't be used directly for a conversion, then. Is the australian version available in large scale?

 

Jens

[Grant-Kerr]

Unfortunately not Jens, However I know a fella here in Victoria that made the body for one from 2 USA trains F3 units. A bit of slice and a lot of dice but he did the body. Then ran into trouble with the trucks/ bogies. The Victorian B and S class diesels both ran 3 axle Commonwealth trucks / bogies. This made them 1-A-1 units and had a lot to do with axle loading in the day. I never found out if he finished it but these units are available in O and HO scale from Ausiscion. As an aside the S class is a bit of a odd fish as well because though it looks like a E8 - 9  it is shorter, but longer than a F3. Two of these were written of in a horrific train smash at a place called Violet Town involving the Southern Aurora Passenger Train. If any one wants to know about the paint scheme on the Loco's and the Passenger cars in the above photo I can tell you but I would do so in another thread. Quite a story in and of itself.

[SteamPower4ever]

Well, the Heljan Nohab may be a source for his trucks, once the model is ready.

The Danish MY class had A1A trucks, and a quick look at pictures on the web shows at least some similarity. The slightly different shape of the Nohabs was in fact an adaptation to the European (UIC) profile, and some sources even say that the Nohabs were derived from the clyde B class design.

Jens

[markoles]

Looks pretty cool! Certainly not the 'Danish' I'm used to seeing (an american pastry!)

[SteamPower4ever]

I'm back from the gauge one fair (video later) where Heljan was present, showing off the Nohab and giving it a spin on all the layouts present at the show.

Looks like it's going to be a very very nice runner.

 

The sound is nothing short of fantastic, provided by a LokSound XL v4 decoder with actual recordings from one of the real Nohabs.

Automatic curve squeal and brake sparks are features I haven't seen before.

 

The production plan seems to have been adjusted. The model will be available in four Danish and six German liveries, including the slightly disturbing Strabag Warbonnet. Looks like Strabag may have had copyright issues by the way, because on other pictures the name Strabag has been covered with a sticker that says Santa Fe.

 

Anyway, scheduled shipping in Q2 2015, and four of the six German liveries are already sold out from the factory.

A conversion kit for a Norwegian Di3 type will be offered by Agder Modell Teknikk of Norway, who is also offering the actual conversion. Apparently they did the same with Heljan's 0 gauge Nohab.

 

Jens

[Rayman4449]

The Strabag Warbonnet... look at that.. Never would have thought that paint scheme would be used elsewhere

 

Glad to hear it is sold out, that means they have the sales they are looking for.   Thanks for the update Jens

[SteamPower4ever]

The Strabag Warbonnet... look at that.. Never would have thought that paint scheme would be used elsewhere

 

Strabag is one of the largest civil engineering corporations in Europe, and even though they've been involved in the Copenhagen metro, I had never heard of them before they purchased a handful of Nohabs for their rail division.

 

A few years back I talked to the guy who painted the Strabag Nohabs. He used to be a fireman on the last steamers of East Germany, and he's part of the regular inventory on steam photo excursions these days, lugging a huge video camera on a tripod. He told me that the only restriction on the liveries for the Nohabs was that no two engines should be identical. Given that degree of freedom, he couldn't resist the warbonnet.

 

[Rayman4449]

Very interesting insight into that history!  Thanks!

[du-bousquetaire]

I would be interested in the Belgian version myself as they used to be used (two units mu-ed together) on the Paris Brussels Belgian expresses and came right down to Paris gare du Nord untill the line was electrified in the early '60s. I would prefer the early livery. I really liked those Nohabs and remember them well when I was train watching in Brussels  back around 1974-'75 and still (but if I remember, modernised) in 1982 and 1984, it was the last I saw them in service, having left the US since 1975 it was one of the last time I saw a passenger train engulfed in steam from the steam heating. as it moved out of Brussels Nord station with a suburban train. The modernisation totaly ruined their look and the EMD parentage wasn't apparent any more. Belgian railways are very interesting with very caracteristic equipment. One of the things I would also like from Heljan is a Danish coach or sleeper, that way I would have the next to last missing car for my Nord Express to put behind my 2-3-2 U 1. The last would be the Russian sleeper but I am not sure it ran in the days of steam. That train used to be one of the most interesting consist on the SNCF with cars from all countries France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Poland and Russia as well as some east german cars. + a sprinkling of Wagon lits and even some DSG cars if I remember. Yesterday they annonced on the news that the last Paris - Berlin overnight sleeper train shut down, probably because the French rail agency charges too heavy a toll to run in France, what a shame. Our railway is really going to pot!  It din't run into gare du Nord since the TGV 's did.

[SteamPower4ever]

I expect Heljan to see how the Nohab is received before trying anything new. Bur then I wouldn't be surprised if they went for a B class psssenger coach. That might be too modern for the Nord Express, though.

Oddly, some of the converted Nohabs from Luxemburg are currently operating in Denmark for CFL Cargo ...

Yeah, they're shutting down all the 'real' trains. The night sleeper from Copenhagen to Basel, Amsterdam and Prague is also cancelled as of 2015. A real pity. There was a nice atmosphere on those long distance trains.

Jens

[SteamPower4ever]

According to the German gauge 1 site Spur1info.com, at the Nürnberg fair, ESU will announce that they are entering the gauge 1 market under the name Pullman.

They set out with a few Swiss models and a Nohab in various liveries - the exact same versions as Heljan has announced. Clearly we're seeing the outline of a joint venture between ESU and Heljan.

 

Jens

[SteamPower4ever]

According to spur1info.com who has interviewed Jürgen Lindner, CEO of ESU, - and according to my slightly shaky German understanding - the Pullman brand will primarily focus on the European G scale, ie. 1:22.5 (LGB).

 

The 1:32 market is being tested with the Nohabs, and the future depends on how the model is received. It appears ESU is mostly interested in models where they can use their digital knowledge and show off their decoders to the max, so we shouldn't expect 'dumb' rolling stock any time soon. Heljan could want to make such items on the side though.

 

That's my interpretation and speculation here.

 

Jens

[SteamPower4ever]

Semi-official news from Heljan about the Nohab.

 

Last I heard it was scheduled for Q3, which actually should be official.

Now there's a video showing a prototype pulling 10 passenger coaches. They explicitly say it's a prototype, so there will be adjustments to sound and smoke as well as small parts added. They just want to show how it runs and pulls.

 

The video is posted on an unofficial channel, but the channel owner does work at Heljan and the film is marked with their logo, so I guess Heljan's marketing dept. just haven't bothered getting their own official channel ... yet.

 

 

For the record, the model is equipped with ESU LokSound v4 decoders - the same type I plan to use in my F7s.

If all else fails, I know where to get the EMD 567 prime mover sound 

 

Jens

[Dash 8]

Hello Jens,

Why do you want to change the F7  PS3 Decoder to ESU ?
I think the sound of ESU Nohab is very good, but that's not the sound of the F7's.
I know many people who have changed the PS2 Decoder to DCC.
But no DCC decoder has the sound of the Dash 8 as MTH, as an example
And one more thing, the MTH smoker takes a lot of power, it has three heating coils.
This is too much for Massoth etc. This can be a problem.

[SteamPower4ever]

I'm going to power the B units with NWSL trucks, ESU sound decoders and ESU smoke units.

To get a decent consist - and the full DCC feature set, I expect to fit ESU decoders in the A units as well. And ESU smokers.

Someone here expressed interest in the MTH PS3 stuff when I convert.

 

As for the sound, I know it's not the same. ESU does have US sounds for download on their web site, so I expect to use those.

I may try the Nohab sound just for fun, though. Five of those in a consist revving up ... droooooooool. Yeah, yeah, I know. That crazy dane 

 

Jens

[Dash 8]

Thanks for the explanation,

How many B units you want to build with motors ?
I think 2 A units with motors pull a long train without motorized B Units.
How will you synchronize the various drives.
That's not easy, you always have somewhere slippage
Good Luck

[SteamPower4ever]

How many B units you want to build with motors ?

I think 2 A units with motors pull a long train without motorized B Units.

How will you synchronize the various drives.

 

Three B units will be motorised - I have an ABBBA set on order 

 

Two A units would absolutely be enough for every practical purpose on the club layout, but you know - on all the pictures I see of El Capitan and Super Chief, they used at least 4 units ... and so shall I.

 

I'll sync the drives on a rolling test bench.

That's exactly why I want to fit ESU decoders in the A units also - so I can fine tune and match all the speed steps on all units.

 

Jens