CrazyTrain Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 We have a G Scale train set up in our Lab at 3M that our Software Engineers use to trigger Cameras, RIFD readers and Lasers for their development. The first one lasted about a month before it started making some grinding noises like a gearbox failure. We sent that one back to be overhauled and bought another. The new one is now starting to get a little noisier after 3 weeks. We have about 5-7 lbs on top of the engine for mounting brackets to hold license plates and a foam core square on top for tripping a laser. The train is a SD40-2 from USA Trains. Pictures of the installation are attached. Is there a better more robust engine we should be looking at that will fit our G scale track? Any suggestions from the experts for improving our longevity of the engines would be greatly appriciated. Thanks in advance. CrazyTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Hi CrazyTrain. You are running into the one issue with the mfgs that use plastic gears in their engines. They just don't hold up to really heavy use. (for regular use by the avg consumer they serve their buyer ok). If you really want an engine that will hold up I would get an MTH One Gauge diesel like the Dash-8. It like all the MTH engines (steam and diesel) have all metal worm and axle gears and won't strip out, wear out or break so it should last much much longer without giving you problems. They come fully installed with sound, lights smoke and digital control but it sounds like you just need to run it under analog power. I actually have these available as MTH has them in-stock. If you wanted to go this route and ended up buying one, I would be glad to work with you offline to make sure I fully understand your application and make any customizations needed to the engine to make it better fit what you are trying to do. With the USA SD40-2, the other issue you will run into with that much weight added on top is how the side frames ride on the motorblock. The weight is transferred to the side frames and they ride on an appendage that sticks out from the wheel. Those appendages wear out the brass bushing that is in the side frame. They literally start cutting through the bushing. That's another issue with your application that going with the MTH engine will eliminate. Example of a USA Trains three axle bushing wear from a train we used on our mall display. This is with no extra weight added so 5-7lbs will accelerate wear at this point (center axle point) because the way this is designed the center axle bares the brunt of all the engine weight and with the small diameter of the appendage the force exerted on the bushing contact surface is relatively high. Hope that helps some. Feel free to send me an email or private message if you want to talk more offline. Also, I do service all of my customer engines in-house, nothing is farmed out to the mfg and keep a stock on all key repair parts such as motors, boards etc for quick turnaround if something does need a repair so there is no wait. But you shouldn't ever have problems with it the way it's built. ​ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 ...." We have about 5-7 lbs on top of the engine" CrazyTrain Just to be fair, although these toys can pull decent loads, doesn't mean they can support them on top. As Ray describes, and most of us here have found out, the design and quality of the USA diesel truck would need major maintenance to do this at the least. The axle ends need to be kept in oil or light grease and the gears do too. I have a particular model from them that eats gears. I believe the truck casting is slightly warped and there's no allowance in the design for this undesired tighter tolerances. Other models do much better with constant care. I'd be interested to know how much run time your engine saw in that month. Did anyone at least oil the axle ends as per the manual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyTrain Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Thanks for the quick response. Will the MTH engine work with on our current G scale track? I would guess the engine ran an average of 4 to 6 hours per working day. We did start oiling the axles on the new engine but the first one had no maintnance preformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Yes the MTH will work on the current G scale track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Not sure if you could do this with your rig? I think it would be better for the train to haul the load with a ball bearing HD flat car or similar. The new engine will last much longer if it's not overloaded directly on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The weight being on the engine itself (which is on level track) is not materially increasing the rolling resistance of the engine which is what will have the most impact on gear wear. The total rolling resistance it sees which is a combination of 1) the load it has to pull (in this case is zero) and 2) the tight radius friction is what will have the most impact on gear wear. Moving the load to a trailing car will only save the wear on the truck bearings that I shared a picture of. If an engine in this situation that is pulling no load is having it's drive train failing often enough to have a customer post a message asking about how to improve it, the only real thing you can do is to recommend they move to something that doesn't have plastic gears. They want and need something with durability that only all metal gears is going to give them. I've got a dash-8 on order now that will get sent to them soon. They can then take their time and decide if they want to try and repair those other engines as backups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 That is the best. The MTH trucks must be about 10 times stronger or better. Make sure U oil the axle ends before running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Or ... They could mount all the equipment on a couple of flat cars ( just mentioned ) ... but ... push it or pull it ! I'm thinking that a flat car or gondola car at each end of an engine would take the load off the engine .. Just noticed the training wheels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 USA Trains sideframe bushing wear can be eliminated by removing the mount pads, removing bushing then install ball bearings. MTH may use metal gears but have no serviceable parts..no wheels, axles, gears, bushings etc...only drive block exchange IF they have them in stock and they cost plenty of $$$. MTH may sell you a new motor as they go out quite frequently. At least I can call USA Trains and buy all the wheels, gears, axles, motors, sideframes, covers and drive block body...or the whole drive if needed. USA Trains Prestige Series locomotives (Hudson, Big Boy, Dockside & GG1) use all metal gears, stainless steel wheel tires, ball bearing equipped axles etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 It's great that USA sells replacement parts. I have several of their diesel engines (10?) and have been inside each one. They have redundant power pickup points and good overall design. They run smoothly overall. The plastic gears are a liability. You just plan around that by lessoning their loading and more frequent maintenance, right? Two of mine are rougher on gears. One more was gutted by the previous owner. I can only guess on that one. I have spare parts on hand for maintenance. I also have a very large total quantity of MTH engines in both G and O scales. I have never lost a motor, or any gearing or any axles...... or bearings, etc. Some are ten years old now. So, I imagine it's from others running the engines at train shows and being overworked? Whenever I build a train, I physically pull the cars with my hands to see what the load is. I then plan how many engines should be used, taking into consideration the grades on the layout. Just because one engine can move the cars, doesn't mean that you are not wearing it out by overworking it. Try pulling fifty cars or more up any grade by hand! It's easier to add more engines than needed, than to repair anything. When regular train layouts are burning gears, I would suggest trying more head end power, or pusher and helper engines distributed just like the real RRs do. If you use 2 engines, each ideally sees half the load, right? Maintenance, is a fact of life. Every plant I've been in, has a maintenance crew in-house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You're right Joe, the MTH motors in the motor blocks do not fail frequently. If a motor does go out they are avail for $30.00. You won't have anything wearing out and you won't have problems with the motors. I do not appreciate the implication that I am somehow misleading people. The primary issue here isn't the side frame bushings it's the gears failing from the constant use. My comments on the side frames was to point out that in these situations of high use and adding this much additional weight, this is something that else that has to be watched for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I hope you don't take this stuff too personally Ray. You help the hobby emensly. I was just stating about how I don't overwork my engines. I have bought some other brand's used ones, that the owners claimed were fine. I'm sure they new something was up. When I opened them, I saw everything from worn gears, to axles falling out. Just as you point out on your site. I think you are about the most honest, unbiased guy I've dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 No no you're fine I appreciate your response. I wasn't offended by your post. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyTrain Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Our 2nd USA Train Engine just failed today. Looks like we broke a U-Joint drive, stripped out a worm drive gear and wallowed out the side frame bearings. This one only lasted about 4 weeks. Looking forward to testing out the MTH engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Although I haven't broken a U-joint myself yet, I have seen that exact gear wear inside of a few of mine. When installing the new ones, make sure the square axle bushings are installed correctly. If they are not, they will wear the gears out even faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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