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Good tips, Chuck, thanks! It's good to hear from someone who's worked on these engines! I did run on DC on my workbench and it does feel really fast. I suppose a quick and dirty DCC install would be easy now that I've opened it up (I don't have a way to run DC on my layout).
I do want a lot of power though. I have a long 2.5% grade, and I like to pull long trains. In fact, I've also ordered some additional lead weights!
Do you know which 19.7:1 motor you used? If it was the GM9413-2 then it has a no-load speed of 142 rpm, compared to the stock GM9234S017 speed of 424 rpm. The GM9236S020 motor I've ordered is rated at 236 rpm, so I'm hoping it's a good compromise. But in any case, I prefer power to speed, and when I'm running multiple trains on one continuous loop the freight and passenger trains need to go the same speed. (I also don't have any PRR passenger cars yet, so for the time being this will have to be in freight service.)
I also thought of one more potential way to fit the bigger motor in there: I'll have to open up the gearbox to verify, but I opened the factory gearbox and there's a lot of extra space! It might be a pain, but I could potentially shorten the gearbox. Machining down the housing would be easy on my lathe, but removing the shafts to shorten them might be tricky.
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Two years ago I bought an electric AML K4 Pacific at a swap meet, as an open-box item without factory smoke unit or working lights, knowing also that these locomotives are known for running too fast with a motor than can burn out with too much load.
Now this locomotive is finally on my workbench, and the first thing I want to do is upgrade the motor. Greg Elmassian has a documented some possibilities on his site, as well as providing some tips on disassembly which were very useful, however none of his suggestions seemed perfect.
The stock motor is a Pittman GM9234S017-R1, 24 VDC, 11.5:1 ratio. One suggestion on Greg's page is a GM9413-2, with a 19.7:1 ratio. This sounds perfect and it's the same physical size, but in studying the specs for torque and current it appears to be a less powerful motor than stock. Perhaps the gearboxes would be interchangeable, since it's the same physical size, but that's a big risk considering the cost of motors and the factory motor isn't exactly ideal either.
So after much research, including other brands and sizes, I've decided to try a Pittman GM9236S020. I found it on eBay for only $30 + $7.50 shipping. It appears to be ideal in terms of the specs: 19.7:1 ratio, speed of about half the stock motor, and about 2.5x the torque of the stock motor. The current requirements are a bit high with a stall current of 9.64 amps, but I've got a 10 amp QSI Titan DCC decoder for it, and the continuous current requirements should be much less, with the sweet spot of the speed, current, and torque chart at about 5 amps: https://www.servo2go.com/support/downloads/GM9236S020.pdf
The downside is that this motor is 0.65 inches longer than the stock motor, and I don't think it's going to fit without some additional work. There is a little room between the motor and the backhead (although difficult to measure), but I'm estimating more in the 0.3 to 0.4 inch range. However, I can't see any reason why I can move the motor forward a little. I think I can modify the motor bracket, and cut off a little of the shaft to the axle gearbox which has a universal coupling (and I don't know why, since the motor and axle gearbox are both fixed, unless it was just to made the design of the motor mount easier so it didn't have to align perfectly.)
The new motor will arrive sometime next week, so I will resume work on this then.
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Thanks for sharing. It's crazy to think that #1218 was operational so recently, and yet may never run again. But it's a great reminder to take advantage of the opportunities we have now to experience currently operational steam locomotives. I'm considering going to chase UP 844 again when it comes to Boise next month--that's "only" a day's drive for me. Of course I've seen it before, a few times. I really need to go east and see #611!
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Haha, yes, I wasn't going to admit that I've been checking that frequently as well. I'm hoping this means everything (2015 and 2017 catalogs) is lined up at the factory for now through summer, and we won't have to wait so long after all! Now let's see if they get the Big Boys out this month as currently scheduled.
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Okay, I took a video and have your answer...
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Yeah, that's a USA Trains part number and locomotive. Fortunately, the GP9 is still in production and USA Trains / Charles Ro is pretty good about stocking parts. Call them at 781-322-6084 and describe what you need.
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Hmm, good question. I can try next time I run my Big Boy... I have a branch loop with 10 foot diameter. The centipede axles have a lot of play, but I would be concerned with the front truck hitting the tender body and pushing it off the track. That's a problem I had early on in a couple places (on 20 ft diameter), until I noticed the tender was leaning forward slightly. Adding a few extra washes between the front truck and tender body fixed the issue.
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Awesome to see an ad for the FEF-3! Where did you find this, Ray?
Last summer a USA Trains employee at the NGRC show told me they'd be shipping by this summer. Of course, that's very hard to believe in this hobby. Nevertheless, to me this indicates that they have actually been working on this for awhile. It's not like they are just putting out a flyer for something they may or may not build someday (e.g. Accucraft AML GP60, Dreyfuss Hudson, etc).
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Looks great, thanks for sharing this! I have a theory that this is either a new prototype or an old prototype (and not a production copy), because I'm seeing some differences between it and production (based on Ray's photos: http://www.rayman4449.com/MTH_Daylight_GS4.htm).
Some problems I see are that the front number plate is missing, the silver stripes on the pilot are curving up (hope they fix that!), and the train numbers are missing. But on the positive (and subjective) side, it sure looks like the smokebox gray is darker than it used to be (yay!), the stanchions on the side of the smokebox are black instead of gray, and the sides of the front platform are black instead of gray. Of course I'm assuming there was only one original production run. Does anyone know if that's true? If there were multiple runs I can see how there'd be some variation like this. (I know from experience that they are many similar variations between different runs of the USA Trains Big Boy.)
In any case, I'm just anxiously waiting for the new ones to ship, now that I've made a preorder with Ray. It's not like I'll have nothing to do for two years if it takes that long, but I can dream that it's sooner, right? :)
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Cool, thanks for the additional details. Regarding spotty power, yeah, with just four wheels picking up power AND a very rigid suspension (or lack thereof) it doesn't have to even be very dirty track, as a slight twist will cause two wheels to lose power. But the biggest problem is that with DCC (at least my decoder/config) is when it regains power it doesn't immediately resume full speed. It has to do the startup (two toots) and then accelerate up to full speed. Is it the same way with PS3? All this said, I was able to add a 4700uF capacitor which made a huge difference. Perhaps I should just add a few more capacitors.
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Wow, impressive Ray! I've installed a Titan-U (HO Scale decoder) in my kids' Thomas, with a tiny HO speaker (both in the coal bunker), so I know what it looks like inside. Did you make some modifications to fit something bigger? The smoke is also impressive, but it looks like you took out the moving eyes mechanism to fit that. I'd also be interested in closeups/details of how you did the LEDs (the physical part of modifying the housings).
Also, how is PS3 with dirty track? That's the real problem with our Thomas. All my locomotives run fine on moderately clean stainless steel, but Thomas needs extremely clean track! As it is, my kids run their battery powered locomotives instead, and Thomas almost never runs. I'm planning to switch it to battery too this year.
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I have an older Micromark mini table saw I bought used from a friend for $100. It's great for thin materials, but bogs down with plastic over 1/4". Wood is usually no problem, as long as it fits--1" blade height and a tiny table--but it has stalled as well if I go too fast, and with such a short fence it's hard to get perfectly straight cut. I think the problem is mostly the operator though. The friend I bought it from used it for years to create some of the most incredible wood models I've ever seen. That makes it hard(er) to blame to the tool!
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Awesome! I will bring up the topic with my wife soon (of placing a preorder). But I'm surprised to see the delivery date listed as June 2017! Does this change what you so wisely estimated earlier (given the normal delays in this hobby)? Could MTH be so optimistic as to think they can deliver in five months, but then miss the date by a year or two? (Maybe the answer is yes... I suppose this did happen to me with Accucraft and those passenger cars.)
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Yeah, I wish there was something completely new too. These are great re-runs with some new upgrades, but it would be nice to see new models too.
Regarding prices, I wish it wasn't so, but brass prices have gone up a lot more than MTH has. Compared to prices of other plastic models from other manufacturers, the MTH prices seem pretty reasonable, especially if you're running DCS or DCC. I normally have to add more than $200 to the price of any locomotive for a decent sound decoder, plus many hours of effort installing it.
That said, not everyone will be able to buy them. But not everyone can afford HO either, it's a few hundred for a decent steamer these days. I have a theory that most of us pick hobbies that are a stretch for our budgets. There seem to be plenty of people buying boats and luxury cars everyday. Apparently some people even spend thousands of dollars buying a hot tub at the mall. I don't know how how people afford those. But for whatever reason I think there's a perception that model trains are "toys" and shouldn't be so expensive. I know most of my friends would be shocked if they found out how expensive this stuff is, yet no one thinks twice about getting a new iPhone for $750. I think it's more a matter of interest and perception than actual cost.
Of course there are plenty of ways to enjoy G-scale for far less money. My kids each have used locomotives with battery and remote controller--each for under $100. And most of my stuff I got used from swap meets as well.
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Speaking of black, the catalog is showing a GS-2 for the black paint schemes, but with a road number of 4449 that would be incorrect. There's also no mention of GS-2, so perhaps the pictures are just mockups based on the original release? My first choice is Daylight colors, but I'm tempted by a black version too. However I'd rather have a true "War baby" w/o skirts, like the original release: http://www.rayman4449.com/MTH_GS2.htm
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Wow, that's very exciting! I've been waiting and hoping for MTH to re-release the GS-4 with PS3. I'm been mostly looking (well, saving) for an Accucraft GS-4 to best match my new Accucraft Daylight cars, but for the price, with built-in DCC, I will have to strongly consider MTH! Any guesses as to the timeline? And will pre-orders be required?
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What does the circuit board do? If it were me, I'd replace it altogether... maybe just hardwire in a switch for "on", or maybe put in something better.
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Hi Razor,
I don't have a Hudson, but the Big Boy is similar:
1. I just use a lightweight hobby oil on the rods and linkages. When I rebuilt it I also cleaned and greased the gearboxes.
2. Coal: I have almost 1000 lbs at home, to run my small 7-1/2" gauge steamer. I've started sifting it through a 1/2" mesh and I'm collecting the dust and small pieces for use with G-scale. I don't have much sifted yet, but you likely don't need much either... let me know and I'll send you some for the cost of shipping.
3. I usually use between 120 and 200 ohm 1/4 watt resisters (and 1/8 watt should be fine!). Look at your LED specs to be sure, but many are 20ma with about a 3.4v forward voltage. If you have 5 volts constant DC (and if not, maybe add a LM7805 voltage regulator?), then you can pick a resister for the brightness you want. You'd theoretically only need 80 ohms for this situation, but as you say you may not want full brightness.
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Yes, you're right... I've used numerous WiFi analyzers on multiple devices trying to figure out the situation, but no luck. Something happened around Sept 2014 and all of a sudden all 2.4 GHz stopped working altogether. I've used multiple routers, multiple channels, but nothing works. My WiFi printer rarely works anymore even in the same room as the router. I've had to put up two 5 GHz outdoor access points to reliable run the trains (2.4 GHz has better range--except when it doesn't work at all). Even Bluetooth (2.4 GHz again) doesn't work reliably anymore.
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Cool! Yeah I had to do the same thing to load JMRI Engine Driver. I noticed that sale and was impressed but skeptical... I think paid over $200 for my Kindle Fire about 1-1/2 years ago! But I got the 64 GB version (it doubles as a movie player for the kids for road trips) and also not every Fire (or tablet) had 5 GHz WiFi which is a must where I live because of so much interference on the 2.4 GHz band. I looked at this sale one and didn't see anything about it in the specs, so I'm not sure if it does or not.
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Cool, I haven't used the MTH app, but with JMRI and Engine Driver I've also settled on a 7" tablet (Kindle Fire). There's enough screen real estate to run three trains at once, including the first two rows of function keys, but still small and light enough to be easy to handle.
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I'm going to have to stir up the conversation and recommend otherwise. It depends on what you want, and if bigger is your priority then yeah, by all means. But be sure you know what you're getting into. There is far, far less equipment available in G-scale, and occasionally we hear RUMORS of something entirely new, but it has been years since there has actually been anything entirely new released in 1:29 or 1:32. On the other hand, it seems like O-gauge is doing pretty well. One of my good friends recently sold all his G-scale and switched to O-scale, and when I go to all scale train shows like I did last week, I can understand why! I'm a bit jealous of the wide selection and more reasonable prices (mostly).
If I were starting over, I may have gone with O-scale myself. I'm reluctant to switch at this point since I have a pretty large collection and a big layout outdoors. But when I started collecting G-scale, it was a growing scale (and O-scale was shrinking), and I figured that even though I wanted things that didn't exist in G-scale, they would soon enough. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case.
All that said, I do love the big size of G. I'm writing this from my home office where my USA Trains Big Boy is on display--all 5 feet of it--and outside I've run trains over 80 feet long. It's definitely a fun scale to be involved with! I just want to be brutally honest about the drawbacks too.
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It's going the wrong way (for me), but it looks like you will have a chance to catch it going through KC!
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Wow, that is excellent news! It was my first choice from their survey. Here's hoping they have a sample at the NGRC next month! (I will be there and will take many, many photos if they do.)
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This is really great news! I was starting to wonder if they'd ever finish the rebuild. Hopefully they'll take it on a west coast tour again next year. I can't believe it's been almost four years (fall 2012) since it was here. Amazingly, my older son still remembers it when he was just 2-1/2 years old. And my younger son was just born, I think the week it was here in 2012, so it will be a great family trip to go train chasing big steam.
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