Screwy Nick Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 Follow up on yesterday: what a difference room temp air made on the results. Hoping to make video showing the difference between room temp and 25'F later. And the gears are in Edgewood NY. As the commercial said, "Any Day Now", yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 Here is a video of the turbine on cold air. The warm air was better on the lower pressures, 30 & 40, 50 didn't seem to be much different. Youtube rejected the video of room temp air?? so will do that again. BTW, the gears have been tracked to my post office, hope to have them in hand Monday, but of course I am last on the route so after dark. The rubber bands from my vegetables have just about had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 The disclaimer in the add stated the holes “manually measured so may not be exact”: the large gear was 5+mm without a set screw hole in the collar, the smaller gears were 3.5mm. I have had some experience with Sintered parts before and they don't like to be altered. So instead of drilling out the holes made adapters so I could change easily and not loose exact 'center'. Mounted them and applied air to the turbine. The turbine spun and as it was winding up the screw holding the gear to the generator went one way and the gear another. I knew no locking washer was going to sufice, so using my old friend JB adhered two brass posts to correspond with the depressions in the gear, and away we go. Everything is aligned and spinning away using the smallest gear. This test was mostly to check the gear alignment, the power output was a surprise. Right after this the gear, screw and nut flew off the turbine, my fault as I only pressed the nut into the collar, secured it with a bit of my old friend. Going to let it cure over night and tomorrow try the next size up gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 At times was getting inconsistant output and could hear the turbine wind down as under a strain. Took it apart and found nothing rubbing and the bearing was still perfect. Then I applied power to the motor that I am using as a generator, with meters attached. Seemed to be running fine, then the V dropped and the mA jumped, drag is in the motor. As I ran the motor it happed with more regularity. Disassembled and found one of the brushes wasn't seated properly. I needed more hands than I have, so used alligator clip to help me. I broke one of the brushes, almost in half length wise. To my surprise the motor runs, and now using even less power. Problem is can't seem to find replacement brush assembly. It is a Pittman 9237C584 12V motor. This motor is no longer listed. Looking on line looks like several of their offerings use the same brush assembly. If anyone knows where to order one I would appreciate you posting. Thank You. Screwy Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 Since the adventure above the output has improved. Less pressure produces less voltage, but the mA seem to have risen. The wheels start turning at lower voltage and while the voltage only creeps up the wheels are spinning faster and faster, a good thing. I didn't realize how noisy open metal gears are. Here is the next thing I'm going to try. Compared to what is on there now, the drive gear is a little bigger and the driven is a little smaller, should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 the OP of this post rebuilds Pittmann motors and may have the parts. PRR fellas!…let’s build an S2!! Tales From Harmon Shops | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com) here: harmonyards | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com) He helps me out all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Joe, thank you for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Adapted the two cogs for the belt to the turbine and generator. Like the quite so that is the way I'm going to proceed, just not this ratio as took 80 lbs of pressure to get things moving. The metal gears were 3.75-1, so going to look for something close or even a little over. EDIT: ordered two assemblies, 4-1 & 5-1. Figure by mixing them up should come up with the sweet spot I am looking for, be a bit before they get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Do my most productive thinking when asleep. Decided to try the rubber band with the cogs. Same results using 20lbs less pressure, the belt is substantially adding to the drag. Better keep eating broccoli and asparagus. Had another thought and will try that one later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 This is the other thought I had yesterday, making the most of the output, sending it through a boost board. Preliminary tests show I can almost double the output voltage without current loss. First meter you see is gen output, two side by side are boost board output. Negative indicator on the mA meter indicates polarity reversal, idiot proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B44 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 You seem to be having fun Nick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 So I want to know were is Bug during all this... My shadow while even checking my computer .. He just turned 15 on Valentines day .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Jerry, frankly I am more confused than ever, glad I document everything. Sean, Bug is in his house while all this is happening. The loud compressor providing the air pressure and the whine of the turbine doesn't thrill him. And I allowed him to sit on my lap ONCE while I was on the computer. He pawed the keyboard, and I spent 2 hours on the phone with Apple Support. --------anyway. Here's what I came up with today. 02/21: interesting finds this morning. Made a guard for generator sprocket, rubber bands kept flying off. Did extensive testing and found 1: the boost board adds to the drag on the generater to the point can get the same voltage without it using same pressure, but more mA to the motor. 2:Put the gears back on. Did the boost board with and without, definitely without. noisy as they are producing the best results so far. 3: The DUH moment: The belts are turning the generator in one direction and the gears another. Noticed that as I was switching things. The simpson, wire wound meter, started heading in the wrong direction. Got everything polarized. Then realized the generator produced more in the direction the gears were turning it than the oposite that the belts were turning it, same ratio. It has a favored direction?????? So many options, so many different results. Oh and one more: first run of each day takes almost 5 minutes to warm the generator and can hear it lesson the drag on the turbine and it is allowed to wind out. Did the same thing when I put the gears on and generater ran in the oposite direction. So glad I have documented everything, but still confused. Think I'll go dig a hole in the yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 always step back..... come back at it with a fresh set of eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 Learned several things yesterday, both about the burner and the turbine. The #5 jet is fully maxed out and opening the valve on the fuel made no difference, the jet was holding it back. The #8's should be arriving, “any day now”. It can be lit at the stack, wasn't sure. The high heat adhesive I used, while is good for hight heat at the burner, not good when subjected to steam. Totally disingrated into tiny grey sand particles. Same thing happened to the JB Extreme Heat. The turbine/generater: Steam tests show it starts producing power with less than 40lbs steam pressure, on compressed air starts at 50. Bad part is the turbine vane assembly expanded so much while on steam it started to drag on the housing, so that needs to be lapped to give a little more clearance. I rate today 1 step forward, 2 back. Not discouraged, how long did it take to build the Great Wall??? EDIT: tried to correct the titles, only messed them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 Cleaned everything up and must add something about the Rutland high heat adhesive. I used it both on the ceramic burner and internal part of a turbine modification. The parts adhered for the burner are extremely hard, so the conclusion on that product is it must be heated to fully harden. Can't speak for the JB as I only used that near steam, and it too dissolved into grey sand. A true test would be handrails on a live steamer, JB Extreme on one side, Rutland on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B44 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 I used JB weld on some parts I glued to the smokebox on my Shay. Has held up well. I like to rough up the spot a little and use alcohol to make sure it is clean. Not that I know anything! Good you are having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 Jerry, good advice for all adhesives. This Extreme Heat stuff was different than the usual two part JB products. Regular JB is good to 650'F, Kwik good to 450, this is supposed to be good to 1K. Came in a little container and just needed to be stirred. Unlike the other JB's it always seemed somewhat brittle, and it never hardened in the container, still usable. Going to dig it out of the trash, apply it so some metal, let it set and then heat it and see what happens. Used the Rutland on the ceramic burner, rock hard. EDIT; following up on above, have a piece brass spread with the JB Extreme sitting on the wood stove which is at a constant 400 - 500'F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 The JB Extreme cured very hard after being heated. Unfortunately after being subjected to water and steam, reverted to grey sand again, the Rutland faired no better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B44 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Scientific guy! I've enjoyed the quick set up J&B on that UK loco kit I"m working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Jerry, beautiful locomotive. Tell us about it please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B44 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 https://www.barrettsteammodels.co.uk/starter-kits Beginner kit, all brass. Comes with a book of instructions but you still have to figure out a lot. I failed at resistance soldering, so used 0-80 and 1/72 bolts, didn't like the slot screw heads it had. I got it back ages ago when you could get an electric motor with it, no longer offered. Not easy to do, old fingers and such not good with small stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 That has come a long way since this pic was taken. Know what you mean about loosing dexterity, get my daily exercise picking up what I dropped. I'm sure in the directions gives the specs of the motor required, should be able to find a like one on line. Don't stop here, keep us informed, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwy Nick Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 Think I made a minor breakthrough. With just the generator and motorized truck in the circuit the turbine/generator would be under heavy load until the rpm's produced enough power to break inertia on the the truck, (air pressure at sometimes 80lbs) then would wind up and the truck would spin along and I could drop the pressure. I installed the MOSFET circuit that Jerry designed hoping the truck motor would start at lower voltage, inconsistent results. While staring down at the circuit my eyes fell on the switch that reverses polarity to the truck motor. Start the turbine while switch is in N, let it wind up to it's peak at 55lbs pressure than close the switch in either direction. The wheels started immediately with lower voltage than if it was applied gradually. Need to play with this more, adjusting the pot on the circuit board to determine start voltage. Mean time, if Ray could jump in here and explain what the MOSFET circuit does, as I don't fully understand, much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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