Kadee Wheelsets!

[Chuck]

I see Kadee has new 1:32 36" wheelsets in stock..hmm!

 

Dealers are showing a price of $20.00 for 4 

 

I shot them an email inquiring if they're made in the USA...If they are I'll be buying plenty and be saying goodbye Chinese wheels!

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/1gunwheels.htm

[Rayman4449]

Nice find Chuck  I will keep this in mind if I need any metal wheels in the future.  $20.00 doesn't sound too bad and support an American company

[Screwy Nick]

I'm all for that,  no more out of gauge or wobbly  wheel sets, what a relief.   

[Chuck]

I received a set today from Reindeer Pass/ Kidman Tree Farm in Iowa and I'm really pleased with them. The gauge is fine and the roll out pretty dang good. Much better quality than Bachmann wheels and I'd say just as good or better than Aristo's or USA Trains. 

 

I'll be ordering these by the hundreds 

 

 

 

[Rayman4449]

Nice!  Pretty impressive detail, and I see they have a blackened version as well:

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page960.htm - blackened (smooth)

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page961.htm - blackened (ribbed)

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page950.htm - uncolored (smooth)

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page951.htm - uncolored (ribbed)

[Rayman4449]

and.... Made in the USA

[enginear joe]

are the axle ends long enough for the modern spinning roller bearings?

[Chuck]

Joe,

 

 I don't know but it appears that you'd have to modify them a bit. The Aristo wheels for those trucks have the axle shoulders machined back flush with the wheel face. The Kadee wheels have a black plastic insulator protruding past the wheel face which may cause interference with the Aristo truck frame. Suppose one could cut the insulator flush with a razor knife but since I have no Aristo modern trucks I can't answer that.  

[enginear joe]

Thank you.

I'll have to order some to try it. I could use them on other cars anyways. I do like the looks of them. The plastic would be easier to cut back than the bearing surface that I've tried to bevel on the trucks.

 I get a kick out of the wheels are always black or silver. I wonder why nobody paints them rust brown?

[Chuck]

Well I'm sorry to report that these Kadee wheelsets are a dud. I can't get them to fit my track??!!

 

My track is either Aristo (I think) brass with AML ties or Aristo/ H&R stainless with Pro-Line ties.

 

The Kadee wheels just won't fit even though the backspacing is good at anywhere's from 1.575 - 1.580...it's the thick flange profile that they use that's wrong. The way the axles are made they just can't be backspaced any tighter.

 

Here's how they ride on Aristo brass rail...you can see that each side isn't sitting on the railhead as it's actually riding on the fillet 

 

 

Here's a Kadee wheelset compared to a USA Trains set....see how much thicker the flange is? I could machine down the Kadee axle center to make the wheels ride on the rails but I fear that the thick flanges wouldn't fit thru track switch frogs & flangeways. Kadee wheels have a serious design flaw that needs to be corrected before I buy anymore

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Rayman4449]

Very disappointing.  I would contact Kadee and maybe even link them to this forum post to let them know what you're seeing.  I can't believe they wouldn't have tested these wheels out on some track first before trying to sell them.

[Screwy Nick]

Chuck, I see what you were talking about.  Another  possible worry would be the very smooth curve from the wheel to the flange, make it easier for a wheel to climb up over the rail head.   Very disappointing.   Please keep us informed of Kadee's response.         

[enginear joe]

 This is terrible! Thanks for sharing this. I have a feeling they have a huge problem on their hands.

[Screwy Nick]

I don't know how much bearing this has to our scale or this thread, but I remember seeing in an advertisement that CSX stated that each wheel has no more foot print on the rail than one dime.  Looks to me like those wheels have much more foot print than that,  or am I way off base here????

[Rayman4449]

The foot print they're talking about is actual physical surface contact of the flat wheel surface touching the railhead.  What we are dealing with here is the flange is too thick.

[Screwy Nick]

I think I saw that, but put it in a different way, the curve between the wheel and the flange???? I guess I don't understand, please help me to do so.      

[Rayman4449]

I guess what I should just say is the flange is too thick.  I just revised my post.

[enginear joe]

 Man, there's only one thing I could think of to resolve this as moving them inward may still cause problems? Each wheel would have to be chucked in a lath and reshaped??? Am I over thinking this??

[Chuck]

Great news as Kadee has stated that they will fix the problem 

 

Over the last few days I've been corresponding with them and they now seem aware of the problem.

 

Here's their reply...

 

 

Chuck,

 

We appreciate your information and for bring this problem to our attention. With our apologies, we have found that our axles are a bit too long for common large scale track.  The wheels we tested extensively had pre-production hand made axles on them that were  shorter than the production axles.  I'm not even going to try and explain why the production axles were made longer than the test axles but it did have something to with the NMRA Standards.

In your photo of our wheels setting on a long piece of track, what make of track is that?  I noticed that the tread isn't touching the rail. Although it's tight the tread touches the rail on all the track we have.

 

We are in the process of making a shorter axle to match the length that we tested and that ran on all of our track. We are also acquiring different makes of switches we don't have to test with our wheels. It will take about a month to have shorter axle wheelsets available and have tested them.

 

We have contacted our dealers to recall any wheelsets they still have in stock and to offer replacements to customers who wish to return their current wheelsets. 

 

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

 

 

[enginear joe]

 Wow!

[Grant-Kerr]

Some of you may recall that I make turnouts and make them to the G1MRA standard. Making wheel sets is an art in itself and what appears to have happened here is the fillet is to broad. Making the flange thinner is not going to fix this problem, because the fillet is still to wide. Shortening the axle is not going to fix it neither. Shifts the wheel inward and again, a back to back problem ...to narrow. A whole rethink on the shape of the wheel is called for. Taking RPO25 and scaling it up to suit 1 scale track does not work in practice. Looks good on paper though. Myself, I use USA Trains wheels. Heavy, can be re-gauged easily, and interestingly can be fitted to the wider MDC/ Piko trucks straight of the bat. Once done I have never had a problem with them and I am a stickler for gauge / back to back settings. Bachmann wheels I have used and tossed. Noticed that RLD is selling sets of 4 USA wheelsets for 20 odd dollars. Put that together with a Piko hopper and 1 scale Kadee coupler and you are in front of any one else's stock by quiet a few dollars and if you model in 1 scale as I do then that represents good value.

[Screwy Nick]

GREAT WORK CHUCK,  see one man can make a difference.       

[enginear joe]

Thanks Grant. Do the USA wheel sets come to gauge usually?

I was looking at the extra wheel sets from AML also. Have you checked them out?

In the past, I got my wheels from San Val in California. I got a few of his bearing sets and they roll fantastic.

I usually just run them and see if any problems pop up without checking them further.

I have 4 cars with bearing wheels from GR and they were out of gauge? They seem to slide too easily on their axles. I hope they stay put. They have very pointed flange ends that may pick the switch points? I need to test them this summer. They look very nice otherwise.

[Grant-Kerr]

Joe
Couple of suggestions. I check every axle of a car before it hits the track out of the box and, or wheel sets. I have to usually reset every set of wheels from new but once done never again unless it gets dropped. A little trick I picked up from someone years ago in HO was to put a bit of C.A. on the back of the wheel / axle join. It creates a little shoulder and the wheel usually never moves again. Worst I have struck are Bachmann, with Aristo a close second. USA are usually near enough in gauge but I still check them from new. Sometimes get the odd axle or two under gauge.  Get yourself a electronic vernier set (Can be had cheap these days) and set to the G1MRA standard. If you do not know where or what to look for I will be happy to advise you where to look or anyone else for that fact. As for standards? Man do I get sick of hearing we don't need no stinkin' standards in G (sorry)........ Large Scale   Myself, TOC, Gary Raymond and a couple of others fought AMRA to a standstill over what they were trying to do a few years ago with standards and got them to accept G1MRA. I believe reinventing the wheel was not called for BUT now I hear that they are looking at it again to perhaps go to the NEM Morop standard. In case you are not aware those are looser standards but kinda ties in with a lately defunct manufacturer who was all for it. Maybe had something to do with a bunch of loco's that had serious gauge issues and not just one line of them neither. ALL of them. Also the G1MRA standard is nearly or may even now be over a hundred years old. Worked then, works now!
I have never used the AML sets and have heard all about how well the San Val wheels roll but if and this is a if, I buy wheels for something special, I buy Gary Raymond or NWSL wheels (and still check the back to back ) in semi finescale only. Will still work outside quite well. Finescale wheels do not work outside unless the track is dead level and that means transversely as well. Then all you need is a bit of bird poop or a seed and that 10 Grand loco just hit the ground. Also, I have yet to find a set of the major makers turnouts to be right. LGB Aristo USA trains, all have serious problems somewhere but you have to realise that the toy mentality was and still is rife in track work. Especially turnouts. Made to a price, not a standard and that goes back to LGB. Set track turnouts have always been a problem, even in the smaller scales, right up to today, and the Large Scale manufacturers swooped on them to be a "also me" against LGB. So as you see it is not a new problem but one brought about by cheap. By that, I mean to a price! I even had a fella here in Oz who accusingly said to me "How dare I make money out of L.S. trains." He did not want to pay for turnouts but was always moaning about his LGB units and derailing problems. He stopped annoying me after a couple of years!
Any other questions , just ask. Always happy to help.

Nice one Chuck!! Pleasing when someone actually listens.

[enginear joe]

Thanks again Grant.

 I did buy a Aristo gauge and then heard that it didn't match the specs. I should get a vernier caliper. I used to have them at work to measure stuff precisely. I do have to look up the exact specs.

I am using crusher fines and then hosing it down with water. It seems to pack it down like cement. I will keep doing it as it settles. I roll a car around with my torpedo level on it to get the track level across the ties. It is tuff to get it perfect. I'm hoping that the rock will pack down and provide stability soon.

 I do appreciate your RR! The pictures you posted motivated me to attempt my own. That's why I'm screening my own rock to get it close to scale.

I'm sure that my premade switches will be rougher than yours. My MTH Challengers don't like backing thru them already in the basement. I hope to try some from Train-li soon. I have one aluminum one from Switchcrafters that I wish was made of stainless. I may try and replace the rails myself to upgrade it. Maybe I'll try some of his in a smaller code??