SteamPower4ever Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hello all. I am seriously considering an MTH One Gauge F7 ABBA set with ProtoSound 3 and DCC interface, but having no experience with MTH (and being a bit of a nitpicker about my own rolling stock) I find myself in uncharted territory, looking for a reason not to buy. No luck so far, though. I have no layout of my own, so if one such set should ever arrive at my address, it will run on the club layout and elsewhere. This means a healthy mix of Märklin, Hegob, Peco, Hübner and hand laid track - all European track, most of it approx. code 200, I would say. Having searched the web over and over, I have convinced myself that the build quality and level of detail is good enough for me, but I am seriously worried about the wheel flanges and current pickup sliders shown in many pictures. The MTH One Gauge 2013 catalog shows the F7 with pickup sliders, but in the smaller pictures, there are none. Photoshop or what? Will the 2013 edition have sliders and did MTH just use an old picture from the 2010 edition? I can rework much, and I have already spotted a sound/smoke project for the dummy B-units, which means that they need some kind of current pickup. But what about the A units? If they have sliders, is it feasible to remove them and build current pickups on the wheels instead? Does anyone know what to expect? Best regards Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I can help a bit. I only have 1 F series from MTH. All of my MTH G scale engines have sliders. They all also have wheel pickups with carbon brushes rubbing on each. I don't have any F dummy. I have a Dash 8 dummy that has all pickups to operate the lighting. Maybe someone can tell you more on what to expect and how to power up that B. I think the tether runs right thru it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hi Jens, As Joe noted, all MTH engines come equipped with sliders and you can expect that they always will. I know on the 2 axle diesels each wheel has a carbon brush power pickup and looks like Joe confirmed that each wheel has a brush on the three axle blocks (PA unit). The dummy B units as I recall do not have any power pickups at all. Now with the question can you remove the sliders and just go with the brushes... that's going to be a judgement call and will not be so much of a yes or no. Can it work? yes. Do I recommend removing them? No. My reason for leaving them in place to help ward off any unforeseen operational issues you might encounter. I'm not saying that you will but, I would keep them for peace of mind. The reason MTH and USA trains uses power pickup sliders is to add that extra contact point for the extra reliability. Eliminating the sliders may see vitally important now, but will suddenly lose it's importance if you start running into power pickup related reliability issues. In my case I have gone through and painted the top and side edges of all my sliders with flat black paint to make them less noticeable. In my opinion once painted they disappear. Kind of like the cab number on engines, when they are running the last thing I ever look at is the cab number, I'm looking at the scene. If you decide to go with the engine I would first operate the engine on the layout as delivered with the sliders on, then later if you want to try removing them do. That should help you relate any operational problems back to the slider removal. My recommendation isn't because the engine is MTH or that you would be using DCS Protosound specifically (I would say this in any case), but since you are wanting to use a digital control system (I know it sounds like you will control via DCC equipment) I would suggest you keep them to ensure as few problems as possible. So again, you can do it just understand you may be opening yourself up to problems down the road. Not sure if this helps any but here are three pics of one of my Big Boys with the sliders painted: (click the photo to enlarge) One picture before they were painted: (click the photo to enlarge) I never really noticed them before but I really don't now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmaster Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 This topic has been moved to the "Locomotives" section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Miller Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 On my MTH Northern which I modified to run on battery I came up with a way to lift the slider up while running on battery and then they can be lowerd for track current operation. You can use this method to test unit without removing the sliders until you are satisfied with operation. I lift up the slider, then take a piece of plastic tubing and force slip it over slider bolt that runs thru the spring. This holds up the slider. To lower slider just pull off the tube. ...........Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Miller Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Raymond, will MTH run on code 200 track?...........Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I should have added that at first, I thought I would have removed the sliders. I didn't like how they looked at all. I thought they stood out like "sore thumbs". Others had cautioned me to wait. I must admit that they disappeared from my view now. I barely notice them and I believe they help with my smooth running large consists. They're on the USA's and the LGB too right? I think they're better hidden on the MTH models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Sorry I neglected to comment on the code 200, boy I'm not sure that would ride pretty low. I'm not sure I've ever seen code 200 in person ever, very rarely ever see 250 and not sure I've seen 250 in person either. From an engine perspective I guess you could lathe the flanges down but would take a little effort. Great idea with the sliders Jim. Yes USA and LGB both use power pickup sliders. LGB on all their engines I believe, USA on their diesels only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamPower4ever Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm not sure where I got the affection for the F units. I'm a steam guy after all. I suppose it's an old flaw in my personality, but maybe it's because the F units were the predecessors to the legendary Danish MY and MX class diesels, which also had the GM 567 prime movers. So far I still feel like buying, although it is looking more and more like a project. You see, coming from DCC, what I actually want is a great looking model of an ABBA consist at a reasonable price. I know and acknowledge that MTH really excels in sounds and features, and that the DCS system provides something that DCC does not. However, once again assuming I go for it, I would fit a sound decoder and smoke unit into each B unit - possibly even a motor if I can. Then it would be a matter of matching the sounds. If the ProtoSound equipped A units would accelerate or sound different than my DCC equipped B units, I'd fit the same type of DCC decoder to the A units as well. I would lose some features, sure, but I'm not really that feature-driven in my modeling. Having a great running, looking and sounding consist would be my goal. Painting the pickups black sure does make them disappear. I would still fear that they could rip up a point or two on the club layout, though. Learning that the MTH diesels actually have brushes at the wheels, I think I could (or would) fit metal pickups on all wheels and remove the sliders. The pickups are available as aftermarket parts, and we run 4-axle diesels all the time without any problems. It's an indoor layout, after all. About flanges and codes: It looks like some guys are running newer MTH equipment on Märklin track without any problems, and that would mean code 200, I think. I've written MTH directly, asking about it, so let's see what they say. This topic has been moved to the "Locomotives" section. Oops - picked the wrong forum, there. Sorry Best regards Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobusch Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I use code 250 - but just bought my first MTH unit (a V1000) so will let you know when it arrives. Code 250 looks A LOT BETTER than the heavier stuff (code 322). Question about details on the F7 units - does anyone know which ones are without dynamic brakes or steam generator, but have dual headlights and streamlined (passenger) pilots? I can't really tell from the MTH web site. Pete Jobusch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 you have to look for the sliders in my opinion: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I do agree on the code 250, it really makes a nice difference in how the track looks. Nice engine Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Good luck on whatever you decide Jens On the sliders and the points, one of the things I do to each of my engines is make sure the sliders are level and square. I've found that making sure each one is right ensures no problems later http://www.rayman4449.com/MTH_Big_Boy_mods.htm#Power_pickup_sliders_getting_caught_in_switch_frogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I run all of my MTH equipment over my Code 250 sections. I also have a couple sections of Code 215 that are hand spiked so the spike heads barely stand proud of the web. I have not detected any flange diameter problems in any of these cases. Neither of my F7 B units or unpowered A units have the shoes, or brushes. Jens, I had just finished watching an episode of the Danish TV series Borgen (with subtitles) when i came across your post. If you end up replacing the DCS electronics for DCC decoders I would be interested in the DCS bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xl_special Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If you're concerned about the toy-like flange size on the MTH engines, please see my posted topic on replacing the wheels with NWSL wheels. I've done several and they all run and look great. Its the 3rd topic down on this page. http://www.gscaletrainforum.com/index.php?/topic/102-mth-kit-bashed-southern-pacific-fp-7a/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 XL, did you work on the sideframes too? They look like they're closer to the wheels? (the brake shoes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamPower4ever Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 ... please see my posted topic on replacing the wheels with NWSL wheels. NWSL - of course. Thanks. Browsing the forum, I even came across this thread, which seems to present the solution for powering the B-units Jens, I had just finished watching an episode of the Danish TV series Borgen (with subtitles) when i came across your post. Great show, isn't it? I lost interest at the beginning of the third season, but seasons 1 and 2 were really good. If you end up replacing the DCS electronics for DCC decoders I would be interested in the DCS bits. Duly noted, sir. Without having thought it through, I think I could very well find myself repowering the A units with NWSL trucks as well. In addition to the flanges and sliders, the traction tires on the A-units is of some concern to me. Having decided that the A units should have tires and thus reducing power pickup by 25%, it makes sense for MTH to use the sliders for a stable pickup, especially for garden layouts. Indoors at my club I don't need the tires, and thus I don't need the sliders. Looks like the outline of the project is taking shape. You guys are doing a terrible job, helping me find a reason not to buy Best regards Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Miller Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Code 330 track is a must on my outdoor layout because of me and the deer stepping on it. ........Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trygmaya Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Here is my MTH F7 on Marklin track, code 200, no problems! Trygve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamPower4ever Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Thank you, Trygve. Lovely picture with the sun from the left and snow in the background Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trygmaya Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Thanks, the snow fit Great Northern i think! Trygve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B44 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Impressive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du-bousquetaire Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I use MTH equipment on code 250 and code 215 track and have been since 2009. I agree that with the earlier MTH offerings you had to turn down the flanges, this I did on my GG 1 as it really had deep flanges, I also did it on all of my MTH cars(7 to date) which either I could turn down, or fitted with Garry Raymond wheelsets, but that was for esthetic reasons, it ran fine with the original flanges but it did look awfull though. Since I have aquired an F3 which has relatively deep flanges, but it runs over all my layout with no problems, It does hit a few spikeheads on one short section but this isn't a major problem. I have noticed that on more recent offerings: the VO1000 and the alco PA1 the flanges are shallower still and they do not make any problems on any part of the layout at all. So MTH seems to be on the right track... I find turning down flanges a relatively easy operation for the beggining lathe operator that I am. Some of the MTH wheels (and ditto for some of the Accucraft ones also...) are made of some very tough stuff that cannot be turned easely though (the ones that look fairly light grey). On the GG 1 the reason I turned down the flanges was mainly esthetic as the drivers are very well reproduced and very visible and I felt that it was part of the improvement program that I had setled on. (see photos on the FP7 forum) But it ran very well with the original flanges. These have all pilled up an impressive mileage in the past 5 years, derailments are practically unheard of. One may have to adjust the back to back distance (I widened it on some locos). Also my pike which has 11' minimum radius, was originally planned as a French railways line with left hand running, when I started to model the PRR, I switched to right hand running, and most of the pointwork is thus now facing pointwork, but it still runs with no derailments. and is as reliable as before. So have no fears. But beware of short radius that's the culprit, and it isn't needed in the great outdoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamPower4ever Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Still dreaming about those F7s - and adding sound to the B units: In real life, how were the engines of an ABBA lashup started? Did the engineer start the motor in each unit one by one, or was there a central start button (or whatever) in the lead cab? Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I was wondering about adding smoke units to my Bs. Perhaps battery powered, with a small relay to detect when the A units are smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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