Jerry B44 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'd like to see UP 844 made. Quite a few railroads ran that type of engine, so could be pretty popular, besides a UP version. The Dreyfus could be a mistalke, as was the Triplex, only used on one railroad. I sure like the looks of it though! I made a streamlined UP engine, based on a Pacific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think you hit the problem. MTH says G scale is a niche market. They release engines, that appeal to a few of that market. They complain that they don't sell like they should. They only made a limited number of Big Boys to keep the value up. I think they have to change their market strategy instead of abandoning G scale. I was out of work when they released the GS4 (series). I might have bought one. It really didn't appeal to me. None of the older diesels appealed to me. I don't want a GG1 or a Triplex to be honest. I probably don't represent the market mass. MTH's releases missed my target of modern equipment on the rails. I always had hoped of more equipment like the Dash 8 series. Even more modern cars to run with them. At least I got some new tanker paint schemes coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think I'm up to ten or twelve Dash 8's. How many more can I buy? I'm going to gut a couple and convert them to ES44's. What else can I do??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If the only one railroad ran it concept was really the issue, then the Big Boy would not have sold. The Big Boy was an excellent seller, so this isn't about only one railroad limited designs. MTH also had stock for at least some period of time after they fulfilled all the existing orders. The triplex wasn't a mistake, it was produced based on the level of popularity and sales level in the O gauge market. In fact they continue to reissue the Triplex in O gauge (in both Premier line and in Railking/Imperial) and have produced it in HO, they wouldn't keep reissuing the engine if it wasn't popular. All G scale sales dried up when the economy tanked and in fact I got more emails from random people asking about the triplex than I ever got about the Big Boy. (ask the dealers they will tell you, I know cause I was working for/with one when this happened) The only triplex that remained lingering in stock was the blue boiler version (which most people I knew wanted the all black version). Once they lowered the price on the triplex the black boilered versions sold out. The 844 itself is a UP specific design (FEF Class) that only they ran. Other RRs had 4-8-4s but the 844 is a UP design. Aristocraft was fully committed to the generic engine approach and they are no longer in business. For the most part when you look at what Accucraft has produced, everything has been pretty iconic/famous, railroad specific engines: Big Boy, GS4, Cab forward, 2-6-6-6, T1, (Dreyfus TBD?), etc. I honestly don't know how it could be said that they are only producing to a few of the market. What else are they supposed to make and expect it to sell in sufficient quantities? If you don't make the iconic Dreyfus Hudson, the very well known SP GS-4 (an example of which is still operational), a Big Boy cause only one railroad ran it, Challenger cause only one railroad ran it, so what does that leave us that the masses will want? A high boilered relatively generic 2-8-0? I know there are differing views on this but I just don't feel that generic non-iconic engines sell as well. (One only needs to look at the O gauge catalogs (MTH and Lionel) over the many years to see which engine designs show up the most and keep showing back up to know what sells the best. There are far more iconic, one road engine designs then there are generic ones in the prior and current catalogs.) The truth is MTH hit the most popular models in their first pass with all those engines I listed. Most everything else from here on out will likely be of lesser interest and demand. (I do think an N&W J class would have high overall appeal so I think there are some others that do have potential. The J is another engine that keeps getting reissued in O gauge but only one railroad ran it.) Now when it comes to diesel I too would have preferred to have seen the most modern designs made. Also I don't know how anyone can say they didn't make sufficient numbers. The Big Boy had at least three production runs/shipments as they sold out twice but as noted they had stock for a period of time after they fulfilled the existing orders. That is simply not true that they kept production numbers low to keep up the value/high selling price point. Any company wants to sell as many as possible to make as much money as possible if they know they can/will sell. MTH has followed the same production model they have in O gauge, they announce a product at a certain price point and that price point is based on a certain quantity of production. Once that production run is sold out, they move on to the next model. They don't produce the same engine over and over and over again. That is why MTH produced a Challenger, Big Boy, Triplex, Hudson and GS-4 in such a short period of time. They took that money and reinvested it back into new and different models. This production model is the same thing that Accucraft does, announce a product at a certain price point with certain limited quantity and move on. It's not something sinister or insidious it's model/approach that you can be sure is based on a whole host of well thought-out reasons that includes remaining profitable and in business. But with regards to an elevated price, the street price of the Big Boy was about $1050. The Aristocraft Mallet was $650. With the Big Boy you got an engine fully decked out with sound, control and big heavy duty all metal smoke unit (a unit specifically made just for the Challenger and Big Boy model), Die cast metal frame, metal wheels, all metal axles and all metal gears. So when you look at what you got for the money compared to say the Mallet (plastic frame, plastic gears, die cast metal axles, no sound or control and small plastic smoke unit), the price point is really not that much different. In other words the profit margin was still probably pretty close to the same. You paid $400 more but you got a whole lot more for that extra. I do still think the Mallet was a good deal and love mine but for what you got for $1000 I dont see how it could be said that it was an inflated price point. If you try to inflate price points you will sell fewer of them. That's partly why companies have moved production to China, to keep the price point as low as possible so they can sell more of them. The real money is in quantity, otherwise you end up with $6000 engines as Accucraft sells and you can be sure they don't sell very many engines at $6000 a pop. The quantity-sold/price cost curves you can be sure is pretty steep, that you can expect to sell a LOT fewer models at $2000 as opposed to $1000. So everyone has an incentive to keep the selling price as low as possible. We would all love for companies to always keep everything we want in stock at all times but what we want and the realities of keeping a company profitable and afloat are often two different things. There is no doubt a number of engines I and others would love to see made but if MTH had not produced the engines they did, the only steam I would have on my layout is a Mallet, USA BB and USA Hudson. Fortunately that's not the case and I have a nice and unique variety of engines to run. We are now basically down to two Mfgs that make affordable mainstream/mainline largescale, USA and MTH. I know we would all like to see more variety but we are down to a lot fewer options than we had just a few years ago and it could get worse. The bottom line with this scale is if a mfg makes an engine, if you think you want to own one at some point you better buy it now cause it may not be around for some time to come. I know people looking for Mallets that now will likely have a hard time getting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ray, I would not argue with your facts. I have different timing as the way I lost my job and I was seeking more modern equipment when I came back. What I was referring to with all that babble, is they released a Dash 8. Then a Narrow nose version. They never made the modern era EMD's. They never produced any of the other modern era GE's. Looking from their other lines, I would have expected such engines as AC6000s, ES44s, AC4400s, GP38s, GP40s, SD40s, SD50s, SD60s, etc. etc. Instead they made PA's, VO1000s, F3s and F7s. I don't know how these sold? The F's were some of the most iconic diesels right? The VO1000 and even the PA would have a certain market. It maybe larger than I'd guess. I would bet a modern era diesel would have outsold it but, I'm not even in business. By the way, I have always stated that the MTH products were the best value in G scale period. I have had to learn to install PS2 in competitors diesels. I have had to purchase many more of them, then I cared to. There wasn't any other choice. There are some people that can't figure out how to run MTH. Apparently, they can't tell which wire is the red one going to the TIU?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I say a few of the Big Boys, because when I was able to afford them, they were gone. When they made the last run, I was out of work. I got my job back and had to catch up with overdue bills first. By then, they were only offering a Triplex which I had zero interest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I totally agree with you on the diesels, I would have loved and preferred to see AC6000s, etc just like you. hehehe :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I also left G scale when I realized how many more choices MTH made in O scale two rail. Imagine this shot in a garden RR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 should I move that scratch build up to the top of the list and add one for U??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Nice Joe!! You have a nice collection of O gauge engines going there! I like the one with the US flag on the side, is that an actual paint scheme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yeap, can't seem to post the picture's link on RRpics? Look up CSX rd#1992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I wanted a custom painted CSX with William J Clinton on the side. After being out of work it fell off the schedule. MTH released this one and I grabbed it at Jason's train shop during a visit. He made me one heck of a deal on it. I always wanted to add president's Clinton's name on the side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant-Kerr Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I guess with Large Scale in general you have to look a little at the age group of most of the (dare I say) modelers in the over all scheme of things. plus at the available capital to that age group. Most are over 40. A lot are over 50. The rest are 60 or better. Kids gone, House paid for, Wife is interested in the garden side of things so the R.R. gets to be built out there. Why those models in particular? Been a member of LSC for over 13 years and heard a lot from the regulars in chat, and some of those fellas can or did , (passed away) have some very fond memories of particular loco's. Joe, you are right. The F3 was iconic in it's own right and always will be but until I started talking to these fella's I never knew just how popular the PA, was with them, In fact a couple of them stated they were the only dismal to achieve steam engine status. Why? The amount of smoke that erupted from the exhaust at throttle up. (Blower fueling up). That and the stunning Santa Fe Scheme. Those PA's looked like they were doing a 100 mph standing still. I was always curious about the VO. Did we need another SW1 whatever? No. So the next best would be the VO. For the same reason I said before. These fellas saw them all the time around yards and such. A friend (deceased now) who lived in NM always said " Make a USRA light Mike and it will sell like hot cakes. Aristocraft did but screwed it up. MTH wouldn't. Why did he say that. Cause that again was what they saw. Any of this making sense now. The Big Boy made sense to make purely because of it's Iconic value. Everyone knows the loco. Maybe some not by name but they have seen a picture of it. I recall as a boy of 11 looking at it in the Encyclopedia Britannica. That was in 1960. It was on the first page of the loco pictures. Not the Rocket, that was the next page. As Ray said, the GS4 is still running and widely known, Plus that beautiful paint scheme. Also, if you ever watched the black and white t.v show of Superman when they say "more powerful than a speeding locomotive", it is a GS4 shown, Kids remember that. Kids become adults and they see it again as a model. The Dreyfuss? OK in the states maybe but elsewhere? Not so sure about it but the J3a makes sense. The Challenger again because it is the largest loco in the world still running and is very well known. (Sorry to shoot you down Ray but Uncle Pete was not the only road to have the 4-6-6-4 Challenger type but Clinchfield was the only other road to have the series 2 type apart from U.P.) ... 3985 is a series 2 as are the MTH models. They are a heavy Challenger. Would I like to see modern diesels? Yep. Would they sell in numbers? Maybe. I say maybe because of the sales of the Aristocraft and USA trains modern loco's. Most guys had to do some serious realignment work to get them to look right on their R.R. or they sit on the shelf as a Queen. I would love to see a Century but it would probably not sell. I think Ray is right in saying a J makes sense. Would that sell? More than likely it would and in numbers too. Oh and by the way, you think Accucraft is expensive, look up Fine Arts scale models and prepare to be shell shocked. Try 20 grand for a Big Boy. and sold out before a tool or die was made. Museum standard of course. Ray, I am interested in the UP pa units if you still have them and also what is the chance of getting your hands on a centipede u.p. tender? You just know where I am going with this. heheheh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've been staring at the price of the Fine Art Models Allegheny on the bay for a little while now. It is stunning. I wish MTH made one! It makes sense how MTH aimed their production at the modelers of the time. Going forward, will they move to modern equipment??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 And by the way I do understand where some are coming from with like producing a non-streamlined 4-8-4 like for instance an FEF. Even if the 844 (FEF) type is a UP only design is would have a little more appeal than one with side skirts for some. I do think that something like an FEF or an ATSF 3571 should be made. (I think that is why MTH did a GS-6 version which didnt have skirting to maybe have little more appeal for freight pullers) I know the 4-6-6-4 was run by other roads but the design that MTH produced was the engine exactly as UP designed it. So even though MTH produced the engine with other roadnames when you look at it none of the others (even the Clinchfield) ran that exact design. You make excellent points on the diesel line-ups and what has been produced, makes perfect sense! Yeah those Fine Art engines are amazing models and insanely expensive. I do still have the UP PA units available if you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 FYI, MTH has released DCS software/firmware version 4.30 for their TIU and Remote. http://www.gscaletrainforum.com/index.php?/topic/217-mth-dcs-remote-tiu-firmware-v430-just-released/ An updated DCS loader software 2.32 will be released soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Well Thursday at the Eastern Chapter of the TCA's spring meet better known in the O Gauge world as the York Show the Founder, President and CEO of MTH Electric Trains Mike Wolf gave his MTH Presentation of new and future MTH products at the TCA Museum. He didn't say anything about the One-Gauge line-up then again it is a O Gauge show but he did let out that the One-Gauge lineup is next to get the GE ES44AC Evolution Series with those cool charging lights! Yeah...MTH is dead in the One-Gauge world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 I just heard that at about 11 min into the video. Still don't know how to add the video link here? I think it's great for a bunch of reasons. Of course we get a new state of the art engine with dcc built in and those cool charging led lights. We will probably get all the correct heritage scheme's and regular ones too in G scale then, to help pay for the molds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant-Kerr Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I heard him say that as well at around the 11 minute mark. Good to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Hey Joe, do you mean post a youtube link? If so have you read this post? http://www.gscaletrainforum.com/index.php?/topic/13-posting-embedded-youtube-videos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Can one of you guys post the video you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant-Kerr Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Go to about 11mins and listen to what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Great news. The market will get a modern diesel added back to the list that will be available. (Basically a nice replacement to the Dash-9) I agree with Joe, will be a good move as they will can get a full NS heritage line out of it along with the whole range of normal roadnames. This is one I will contemplate buying examples of for myself, just not sure what I would get yet. I will probably do a Pennsy and Virginian for sure if they do these paint schemes: (Of course I wonder if they would do a Virginian being it's not a ES44AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginear joe Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 OK let's see. I want the Demo, Pennsy, Southern,..........All of them! and CSX, BNSF, NS, UP,..............all the rest. Uh oh. This will be expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Me too! One of each sir...maybe 2 Oh and I'll take about a dozen PS3 kits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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